Summer mercato 2012

[ACMILAN1983]

Replying to many posts, so as normal apologies for the long one...

Did you guys know with all this seasons departures(so far) we save 26.5mln euros/year BEFORE tax.. which if the tax is infact 50%(not so sure) we save 53mln euros/season, juventus last season only had 100mln in wages where we had like close to 170..

wage wise, we could sign like 5-6 top class players and have a similar wage bill as last year.

rvp -6.5
matri -3
mbiwa -2
santon -2
sahin -4

and we still save on wages..

We can also save more by selling deadweights in the squad like Taiwo (who probably has a pretty decent salary as he came for free).

I agree with most, if not all you have said above Dev...and for me, these roles (striker, CB and AM) are indeed where we need players.

My questions are:

1) Do we have a primavera player who can sub for Montolivo? (Valoti?)

2) Will we spend "good" money to get Mbiwa, or Astoria?

3) Will we indeed stick to the "25" age range while looking for a striker, or go with a Berbatov type? (Personally even if it conflicts with the current paradigm, I wouldn't mind Berbatov, as long as his pay package isn't ridiculous, and with the knowledge that he's really coming off the bench for Pato).

In summary Dev, I agree with you that we need reinforcing in the positions as per above, but in so doing, it raised those 3 questions....

To answer your questions:

1) I think Valoti can be an alternative to Montolivo, as can Cristante imo (a bit young, but he's hardly ever likely to play). Also, I would like to see Carmona more. I'm aware he prefers supporting the forwards (AM), but am certain he can play in midfield too. I think guys like Urby and Constant can be used in place of Montolivo too in the first team squad, albeit they would interpret the role in a different way.

2) Depends on what you define as good money. From what I understand based on general rumours and links, we're looking at a budget of around 10m max for a new defender. Astori's probably a little beyond this price, while Mbiwa's (who has become strong favourite as the new defender) market value is less than 10m. Tasci, who was previously linked has said no club (Barca and us are apparently after him) has been in contact.

3) I seriously hope we don't go for Berbatov. I've never been a fan of his if I'm honest and really don't see what he offers that we need up front. Ironically, after replying to nefremo yesterday about forwards, I had a rethink and I'm also uncertain what we need now up front. Truth is, El Shaarawy in many ways has been impressing me enough to think he could take on a bigger role this season and I don't want us to hamper his growth by adding extra competition in the squad needlessly. Presuming one of Cassano or Robinho leave, I hope we bring in a young leading forward, someone who with Pato and El Shaarawy over the coming years will grow to form our attacking department. For this reason, I hope we strictly stick to buying young talents, someone around 25.

3) I don't know about that either. It depends. If we aim for a bench player, I feel that the age is not issue (in that case, I am afraid that Berbatov is still "too expensive" - close to 10M euro transfer fee, and probably no less than 3M in salary; I would go for cheap Italian oldies like Di Natale - a crazy choice, I know - or Caracciolo). If we aim for a starter, then we should keep the age down (in that case, even Tevez is too old for me) so that in one or two years we could sell Pato for money when he finally starts to shine.

I think every player we should sign should be someone ready to compete for a starting spot. Overall, I think we need balance through the squad and there shouldn't be a big drop in quality between starters and the bench.

Personally, in this respect I want us to look to buy young, as they'd be a potential starter and I'd be happy for us to see a small drop in individual talent in the starting lineup if this means we have a stronger squad overall and work better as a team.

Santon linking himself to Milan after a question from a journalist :

"Bè, io fin da piccolo tifavo Milan, quindi sarebbe certamente bellissimo poter indossare la maglia della squadra che sostenevo fin da bambino. Avendo però giocato con l'Inter, sarebbe una scelta su cui dovrei forse riflettere"

"Since I was young, I have always supported Milan, so it would be very beautiful for me to wear the shirt of the team I've supported since I was a baby. Having played for Inter, it would be a choice I would have to think about though."

Santon soon linked to Milan on websites ?

If we can sell Taiwo, Didac and Mesbah, then I'd take Santon without doubt. Problem is we need to sell the others first. If we fail to do this, then I want us to try Didac.

Ive been linking Santon to Milan for a while now.

If B&G do in fact have a project I think Santon should be considered for the LB role, with De Sciglio on the right. He may be a better option than Dossena, Balzeratti and paddy power fan Criscito.

welcome back to MM

I'm wondering what happens to all our youngsters that were supposed to be so talented... It seems like they all "disappear". Albertazzi, Cristante, Verdi, Zigoni, Beretta, Fossati, Hottor, Santonocito, Calvano, Valoti, Prosenik, Ganz, Ely, Roggia and so on. They are approaching the age where they should be fighting to make the first team squad, at least some of them, but they're not mentioned anywhere. Don't we have any real good prospects for the future? Apart from De Sciglio that is, which is why I didn't mention him.

Interesting post, which goes back to what I posted last Friday. I'm all for giving these guys a chance, but also realistically, we can only bring 1 or 2 of them through to the first team squad at a time. Most will probably never return to Milan if I'm honest, but I do also hold hope that this generation does have enough talent to make their name in the Milan shirt.

My opinion on the youngsters you mentioned:

Albertazzi - Fighting for a place in the squad until the end of August, at which point we'll know whether he's made space for himself or if he will be loaned out to get play time. He should have a future with us.

Cristante - Getting himself noticed a little more at senior level, but let's not forget he's still only 17/18 and so will probably stay in Primavera.

Verdi - Got promoted with Torino last season. Little room for him at Milan right now, so he's staying with Torino this season. If he can make a good contribution this season, I wouldn't be surprised to see him return next summer.

Zigoni - Despite doing great in Primavera, I don't think he's realistically got a future with Milan, with him currently earning experience in Serie B.

Beretta - Struggled last season at Ascoli and is now at Juve Stabia. I'm 50/50 on his future in Milan, no idea if I'm honest.

Fossati - Was in Serie C1 last season, where I think he did ok and will go on loan to Serie B at Ascoli this season. At still only 19, he's got promise of coming back.

Hottor - Is going to be on loan to a Serie B club, Virtus Lanciano. Again, like Fosatti at 19, he's got time to gain experience and come back to Milan to make an impact.

Santonocito - Currently on loan in Serie C1, though I don't think he'll play a part in our future.

Calvano - Currently on loan at Verona. At 19 and one of our most promising youth talents in recent years, I'll be quite surprised if he doesn't return in the next few years.

Valoti - Is in the first team squad on Allegri's request.

Prosenik - Not sure where he'll be. He only signed in January, so I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in the primavera.

Ganz - Is only 18 and so should stay in Primavera.

Ely - Still only 18 so presumably will stay with the Primavera.

In addition to those you mentioned, I'd also not forget Kingsley Boateng, who has shown a lot of promise when given chances, but at 18 is likely to stay with the Primavera and Simone Romagnoli, who is on co-ownership with Pescara but showed great promise last season in Serie B and was a starter through the campaign in the promotion run.

Dev, I completely agree with you on Sahin. Like I said in my previous post a couple pages back (although I didn't want to get into names)....IMO the midfield needs more and Sahin is the perfect candidate. It seems like the rumors about him have disappeared, but I think if Real gets Modric then they will reappear again. I see some news about us being linked to L.Diarra again, and although I think he is a very good and solid player.....I just don't think he is what we need. He doesn't provide the creativity that we need. He will surely be a step up over a lot of our midfielders, but he doesn't offer anything "different" then what we already have (more quality, but still not much different and therefore not what we quite need IMO). So I completely agree with you on him too.

BTW...anyone knows what's going on with Banega? Is he training again after that ankle fracture? I know it would be very risky to buy a player like that (he had a knee injury early in the season....then came back to full fitness and broke his ankle with his own vehicle) and I am not saying Milan should go for him (although when fit he is absolutely one of the best midfielders IMO). But I am just asking to see if anyone knows more about his recovery. As a matter of fact....I would gladly swap Flamini for Banega. One season injury for the other.

On the CB issue. I don't know what we can do at the moment. I haven't seen much of Mbiwa (only saw 1 Montpelier game last season against PSG, and didn't really pay attention to notice Mbiwa). I am split on Astori. People seem to want him and I think he is solid but then again....is he that much better then Acerbi? My opinion is that he is not. He may be better at the moment due to experience (perhaps ability too), but the management needs to identify their plans. If they believed that Acerbi has what it takes...then they need to give him time. And perhaps for the time being, promote Albertazzi. Although, if we can snatch one of Astori, Tasci, Mbiwa (I'll trust the reports and others who have been impressed with him) for cheap then I wouldn't be against it. I am an old school kind of guy and I do believe that a strong defensive line is the foundation for greater things....so if we can further reinforce that foundation then why not (although like I've stated many times, i don't think it's priority before we improve the midfield).

On the attack....like I said previously....If we add some "creativity/dribbling ability/passing ability/dangerous movement" in our midfield to support the forwards, then I am willing to stay put with what we already have. However if I had to make a choice out of what's available and sill try and be realistic....then I would go for Destro (even though I don't even know how realistic that is since there is different reports about him every day). I was impressed with him every time I saw him play this past season, and I watch A LOT of Serie A football. He is strong, quick, and very clever in dangerous situations. He's got a great eye for goal and he can create for others. Not create in a way that Ibra/Xavi/Pirlo...etc create with the ball.... but with movement, holding the ball and bringing others in attack, etc. He is a hard worker too and even though he may not look it, but he is strong on the ball.
- if I was to be not realistic and if the management wants a superstar then I would be ok with Tevez too.

What I do not want however is Kaka. His time here is done IMO. There is no point of going back. It looks like Milan has chosen a different road ahead and I'm ok with that, but now is the time when they need to believe in the decisions they've made. Getting Kaka IMO is a step back, even though for the short term (next season) he might be helpful. But I state again....I do not want him back here. We need to find another Kaka and write different history.

@ WCmilan - I don't think we should play Pato as a right winger. I just don't think he is good enough to play out on the right. His dribbling is below average. He can hardly get past a player unless there is acres of space behind him. His decision making with his passing (his passing ability as well) is not good and he doesn't want to work back to recover the ball more often then not. What he does have is good delivery of the ball however that alone is not enough IMO. I think he is best suited as a CF and he should stay as that. Just my 2 cents.

Forza Milan!!

I don't think there's much we disagree on with the midfield. We do need some creativity or someone who can support Montolivo (who I honestly think will be a revelation this year) in directing play.

I'm starting to agree with your thinking about the attack as I mentioned above. Maybe we don't need another addition as I want us to give space to El Shaarawy. Instead, I'm happy to get someone who can offer consistency in front of goal in place of one of Robinho or Cassano. I wouldn't go for Tevez as to me he doesn't fit into our concept for building a new young side that doesn't cost a fortune, but Destro does seem interesting.

I don't want Kaka either, it would be a signing that would be done for all the wrong reasons. I want us to progress and that might mean we don't get star names, but if we build a great side then the names in that side will become star names. Also, Kaka's salary and cost mean we'd go back on the efforts we've made to cut costs. If we want to be serious with a project of young talents at low cost, then we must stick to it, even if it means that for the time being fans aren't happy.

About your reply to WCMilan, I do kind of disagree. Under Leonardo, Pato was excellent on the right and imo could in theory work there. I agree with you on his decision making/passing game being weak and I agree with you on his inability to track back well being problems, though that depends on who else is on the side and how balanced the side is. I do disagree with your assessment on his dribbling though, which I feel amongst Milan fans is very underrated.

[Kastriot]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/596/exclusiv...is-sanchez

We are getting ridicules...i mean seriously, the guy was bought for 40 mil just last year and had a very good campaign.
Most probably is a fabrication, but still with Galliani u know it is possible

[reza]

Ely has been loaned out I think

[Arildonardo]

I'm wondering what happens to all our youngsters that were supposed to be so talented... It seems like they all "disappear". Albertazzi, Cristante, Verdi, Zigoni, Beretta, Fossati, Hottor, Santonocito, Calvano, Valoti, Prosenik, Ganz, Ely, Roggia and so on. They are approaching the age where they should be fighting to make the first team squad, at least some of them, but they're not mentioned anywhere. Don't we have any real good prospects for the future? Apart from De Sciglio that is, which is why I didn't mention him.

Interesting post, which goes back to what I posted last Friday. I'm all for giving these guys a chance, but also realistically, we can only bring 1 or 2 of them through to the first team squad at a time. Most will probably never return to Milan if I'm honest, but I do also hold hope that this generation does have enough talent to make their name in the Milan shirt.

My opinion on the youngsters you mentioned:

Albertazzi - Fighting for a place in the squad until the end of August, at which point we'll know whether he's made space for himself or if he will be loaned out to get play time. He should have a future with us.

Cristante - Getting himself noticed a little more at senior level, but let's not forget he's still only 17/18 and so will probably stay in Primavera.

Verdi - Got promoted with Torino last season. Little room for him at Milan right now, so he's staying with Torino this season. If he can make a good contribution this season, I wouldn't be surprised to see him return next summer.

Zigoni - Despite doing great in Primavera, I don't think he's realistically got a future with Milan, with him currently earning experience in Serie B.

Beretta - Struggled last season at Ascoli and is now at Juve Stabia. I'm 50/50 on his future in Milan, no idea if I'm honest.

Fossati - Was in Serie C1 last season, where I think he did ok and will go on loan to Serie B at Ascoli this season. At still only 19, he's got promise of coming back.

Hottor - Is going to be on loan to a Serie B club, Virtus Lanciano. Again, like Fosatti at 19, he's got time to gain experience and come back to Milan to make an impact.

Santonocito - Currently on loan in Serie C1, though I don't think he'll play a part in our future.

Calvano - Currently on loan at Verona. At 19 and one of our most promising youth talents in recent years, I'll be quite surprised if he doesn't return in the next few years.

Valoti - Is in the first team squad on Allegri's request.

Prosenik - Not sure where he'll be. He only signed in January, so I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in the primavera.

Ganz - Is only 18 and so should stay in Primavera.

Ely - Still only 18 so presumably will stay with the Primavera.

In addition to those you mentioned, I'd also not forget Kingsley Boateng, who has shown a lot of promise when given chances, but at 18 is likely to stay with the Primavera and Simone Romagnoli, who is on co-ownership with Pescara but showed great promise last season in Serie B and was a starter through the campaign in the promotion run.

I know some of the players are still very young, but in my opinion at least at 19-21 you should be close to getting chances in the first team squad at least. But I guess in Italy you're still considered a talent at 25, unlike elsewhere.

Thanks for the info anyway. Interesting to see how our youngsters develop, they could save us a lot of money in the future if they turn out to be first team players.

[WCmilan]

Big clue to mbiwa being our silva replacement, don't want to get ahead of myself just yet though, pretty much him saying that if a project comes along and hes approached by a big club hell take the opportunity, and he thinks 8-9 mln euros should do it to get him to where he has to be.
http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=86517

and this is a goal article on how this author rates him, very very highly.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editori...n-transfer

and... More Robben links
http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=86511

[Siregar]

Interesting post, which goes back to what I posted last Friday. I'm all for giving these guys a chance, but also realistically, we can only bring 1 or 2 of them through to the first team squad at a time. Most will probably never return to Milan if I'm honest, but I do also hold hope that this generation does have enough talent to make their name in the Milan shirt.

My opinion on the youngsters you mentioned:

Albertazzi - Fighting for a place in the squad until the end of August, at which point we'll know whether he's made space for himself or if he will be loaned out to get play time. He should have a future with us.

Cristante - Getting himself noticed a little more at senior level, but let's not forget he's still only 17/18 and so will probably stay in Primavera.

Verdi - Got promoted with Torino last season. Little room for him at Milan right now, so he's staying with Torino this season. If he can make a good contribution this season, I wouldn't be surprised to see him return next summer.

Zigoni - Despite doing great in Primavera, I don't think he's realistically got a future with Milan, with him currently earning experience in Serie B.

Beretta - Struggled last season at Ascoli and is now at Juve Stabia. I'm 50/50 on his future in Milan, no idea if I'm honest.

Fossati - Was in Serie C1 last season, where I think he did ok and will go on loan to Serie B at Ascoli this season. At still only 19, he's got promise of coming back.

Hottor - Is going to be on loan to a Serie B club, Virtus Lanciano. Again, like Fosatti at 19, he's got time to gain experience and come back to Milan to make an impact.

Santonocito - Currently on loan in Serie C1, though I don't think he'll play a part in our future.

Calvano - Currently on loan at Verona. At 19 and one of our most promising youth talents in recent years, I'll be quite surprised if he doesn't return in the next few years.

Valoti - Is in the first team squad on Allegri's request.

Prosenik - Not sure where he'll be. He only signed in January, so I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in the primavera.

Ganz - Is only 18 and so should stay in Primavera.

Ely - Still only 18 so presumably will stay with the Primavera.

In addition to those you mentioned, I'd also not forget Kingsley Boateng, who has shown a lot of promise when given chances, but at 18 is likely to stay with the Primavera and Simone Romagnoli, who is on co-ownership with Pescara but showed great promise last season in Serie B and was a starter through the campaign in the promotion run.

I know some of the players are still very young, but in my opinion at least at 19-21 you should be close to getting chances in the first team squad at least. But I guess in Italy you're still considered a talent at 25, unlike elsewhere.

Thanks for the info anyway. Interesting to see how our youngsters develop, they could save us a lot of money in the future if they turn out to be first team players.

I share the similar opinion with ACMILAN1983. A notice is that Fossati is indeed still 19 years old but he belongs to class 92, so he will be soon 20 while Ganz, Ely, Calvano and Hottor are class of 93, so they are either 19 years old or soon will be 19 years old. I think most of class 93 will be loaned out except player(s) who got limited games with Primavera which make them probably hard to attract small clubs to loan them out from Milan (and they should be the seniors in the next season team like Comi or other players who were born in 1992). For next season we would see players born in 1994 and some 1995 I think.

From players discussed I would not give my hope so much in Verdi, Zigano, Beretta Ganz and Santonocito. We have tradition to collect stars for strikers or very talented ones like El Shaarwy. They could be come to us if they really develop into very good quality but I think most of them will be in the level like Matri or a bit better than him.

It is also very difficult to have our youth product to fulfill the center back position since this position is (normally) for senior/experienced players or reliable ones. It is now hard to believe that we would have a starter CB coming from our Primavera, at most as first sub CB and I think it is already good.

What gives most chance IMO is in midfield since in this position young players could be trusted by coach when they have already enough experience and of course possess standard quality of a midfielder should have. It means players who are not gifted, skillful or very talented ones still can get chance. Examples are Ambrosini, Gattuso. In addition we have Allegri who seems prefer players who run a lot compared to skillful ones but not runner. So, players like Hottor, Innocenti and Calvano could get their chances if they have finished their 'school' with other teams.

---

Ely has been loaned out I think

News said he is loaned out to Reggina (same with Comi).

[ACMILAN1983]

Kastriot, thanks for the link, but I must say I've only seen that news on goal.com so far. Either way, it's a nice try if true lol

WCMilan, I agree, that's a pretty big hint from Mbiwa that he's close to a move. I presume we've pretty much already agreed personal terms based on his comments, while Montpellier should be back next week from their American tour to negotiate the deal.

I know some of the players are still very young, but in my opinion at least at 19-21 you should be close to getting chances in the first team squad at least. But I guess in Italy you're still considered a talent at 25, unlike elsewhere.

Thanks for the info anyway. Interesting to see how our youngsters develop, they could save us a lot of money in the future if they turn out to be first team players.

As Reza updated (thanks Reza!), Ely's on loan to Reggina. About the players we spoke of, Valoti and De Sciglio (El Shaarawy too to some extent) are part of the first team squad). Cristante, Ely, Albertazzi, Zigoni, Kingsley Boateng, Beretta and Ganz all playing experience with the first team squad, while Calvano, Fosatti (I think), Hottor (again I think), Prosenik and Verdi have all been called up for the first team squad, though I'm not sure if they played.

Point is, we are seeing these guys fighting for places to play a part in our future and they do show potential to do so. However, I think we can agree we need to see them playing a more prominent role in the squad than simply playing the odd random match. I also agree that in Italy we always see 25 year olds being seen as talents who can grow, which was fine up until around 10 years ago, but these days football's evolved and young players grow much faster.

What I will say is I think Allegri's been important for us here. Under Carlo, youngsters pretty much never got a look in, with there being a clear preference for established stars, while Leo worked with what he had, mostly re-integrating homegrown players who had been out of the club (Antonini and Abate). Allegri has given youngsters a much bigger chance to play an important role in the side. Merkel and Strasser are hopefully the start to a much bigger trend in the club with youth players coming through and taking on responsibility in the squad. Last season, El Shaarawy broke through too to great effect, while based on what I hear I think Valoti might have done had it not been for injuries. De Sciglio too broke through to show he can be trusted and it was refreshing to see Allegri wasn't afraid to put him in against Inter in the derby, even if we did end up losing.

[Ryo]

I share the similar opinion with ACMILAN1983. A notice is that Fossati is indeed still 19 years old but he belongs to class 92, so he will be soon 20 while Ganz, Ely, Calvano and Hottor are class of 93, so they are either 19 years old or soon will be 19 years old. I think most of class 93 will be loaned out except player(s) who got limited games with Primavera which make them probably hard to attract small clubs to loan them out from Milan (and they should be the seniors in the next season team like Comi or other players who were born in 1992). For next season we would see players born in 1994 and some 1995 I think.

From players discussed I would not give my hope so much in Verdi, Zigano, Beretta Ganz and Santonocito. We have tradition to collect stars for strikers or very talented ones like El Shaarwy. They could be come to us if they really develop into very good quality but I think most of them will be in the level like Matri or a bit better than him.

It is also very difficult to have our youth product to fulfill the center back position since this position is (normally) for senior/experienced players or reliable ones. It is now hard to believe that we would have a starter CB coming from our Primavera, at most as first sub CB and I think it is already good.

What gives most chance IMO is in midfield since in this position young players could be trusted by coach when they have already enough experience and of course possess standard quality of a midfielder should have. It means players who are not gifted, skillful or very talented ones still can get chance. Examples are Ambrosini, Gattuso. In addition we have Allegri who seems prefer players who run a lot compared to skillful ones but not runner. So, players like Hottor, Innocenti and Calvano could get their chances if they have finished their 'school' with other teams.

Well I can't wait till the one born on 14 June 1996 comes up to play
Two more years till a Maldini returns!

[ACM2023]

Well I can't wait till the one born on 14 June 1996 comes up to play
Two more years till a Maldini returns!

Which position does he play?

---

http://www.goal.com/en/news/596/exclusiv...is-sanchez

We are getting ridicules...i mean seriously, the guy was bought for 40 mil just last year and had a very good campaign.
Most probably is a fabrication, but still with Galliani u know it is possible

My thinking is just like yours. With Galliani, anything is possible, but why asking for humiliating rejection when you know you don't stand a chance? True or false, all fans (perhaps even some of Milan fans) got a good laugh out of it.

[Siregar]

I share the similar opinion with ACMILAN1983. A notice is that Fossati is indeed still 19 years old but he belongs to class 92, so he will be soon 20 while Ganz, Ely, Calvano and Hottor are class of 93, so they are either 19 years old or soon will be 19 years old. I think most of class 93 will be loaned out except player(s) who got limited games with Primavera which make them probably hard to attract small clubs to loan them out from Milan (and they should be the seniors in the next season team like Comi or other players who were born in 1992). For next season we would see players born in 1994 and some 1995 I think.

From players discussed I would not give my hope so much in Verdi, Zigano, Beretta Ganz and Santonocito. We have tradition to collect stars for strikers or very talented ones like El Shaarwy. They could be come to us if they really develop into very good quality but I think most of them will be in the level like Matri or a bit better than him.

It is also very difficult to have our youth product to fulfill the center back position since this position is (normally) for senior/experienced players or reliable ones. It is now hard to believe that we would have a starter CB coming from our Primavera, at most as first sub CB and I think it is already good.

What gives most chance IMO is in midfield since in this position young players could be trusted by coach when they have already enough experience and of course possess standard quality of a midfielder should have. It means players who are not gifted, skillful or very talented ones still can get chance. Examples are Ambrosini, Gattuso. In addition we have Allegri who seems prefer players who run a lot compared to skillful ones but not runner. So, players like Hottor, Innocenti and Calvano could get their chances if they have finished their 'school' with other teams.

Well I can't wait till the one born on 14 June 1996 comes up to play
Two more years till a Maldini returns!

I don't know Ryo, I like your optimism and I also hope like that but I never heard great review about Maldini. From news or opinion from other Milan fans, it seems Gallani who is very talented (if I am not mistaken, Maldini and Galliani are in the same team).