Summer mercato 2012
(05-25-2012, 09:29 PM)sylrus Wrote: i dont like ibra in milan to
but unlike kastriot who just snap Devilol , i stay calm Tongue

I don't mind him. He scores a lot for Milan, and I appreciate that, and certainly won't mind keeping him. It is not my money, so even that he earns too much in my opinion, and couldn't even win the Scudetto at which he was supposed to be good, I don't care. Though, if we sell him, I really wouldn't mind. If we replace him with some other quality players, I won't mind a bit. Smile
aka xudong
I disagree that ibra leaving means to project and no investement.. it just means furhter investment by offloading that huge wage on a 31 year old that although scores slows down our play, I don't think any of you would disagree when i say cavani would be 10x better for us
I would disagree. While I like Cavani as a player, he's nowhere near Ibra's level.

I don't like him as a person, but he is a top 5 player in the world right now.
Agreed, but i think given our opportunities, as we don't really have a player who can put the ball in the net since patos always injured and ibra isn't always a target man but rather starts from far outside the box to play as a playermaker-power striker mix, which is great but cavani is just a powerhouse goal scorer.. i mean that guy given we've missed millions of chances this season would hardly ever fail to bury those in the back of the net. also alot younger, selling ibra now and getting our moneys worth out of him could be good business, im sure the difference in price from a 25-30mln sale of ibra wouldn't be far off buying cavani at cost..

I also don't like ibra as a person.
When ibra scores and wins us games im very happy, for milans good.
When someone like boateng or pato scores im happy for milan and for boateng and pato because i like them as players,people and a part of our team. To me i just see ibra a part of our team, i dont get the passion for him scoring like i do for many other players because of his personality on and off the field, and fact is we call him our leader but when the teams doing poorly he just piles on the tension by acting childish, even if in those moments he's pulled out some brilliance given the chance..

On what he said today as well, on us not spending.. I don't think we're economically unhealthy, because we have no debt and we generate more revenue then inter does, but inter didn't have any money spending on maicon,sneijder, guarin 15mln i believe, and a lot more money on ranocchia then he was worth.. bad transfer moves yes but they do spend more then us, if were in a financial crisis that should mean they should be spending like a bottom-mid table team. I just think if we dont spend this mercato that its simply our management isnt interested in investing, or that they dont want to go in debt. moratti will go in debt even if they make some terrible transfer moves, were alot better on the transfer market then they are in terms of finding quality.. most of our flop players were mainly due to us not spending , what would we expect (taiwo,flamini etc.)

For me our irreplacable players are thiago silva(no better cbs out there), boateng and nocerino , i say nocerino because for the price we got him we wont find any better, not that hes irreplacable but rather for that price i think so.
First of all, if Milan sells Ibra and use the money to get another striker like Cavani or Tevez or Van Persie....this new striker will probably cost more than Ibra transfer and earn as much or more than Ibra. Thus the argument of earning money from Ibra transfer and saving on wages is invalid. Get this through your head, Ibra hater. On top of that, only Van Persie of the three mentioned had led their team on his shoulder and it is not 100% that they could be as good a as Ibra for Milan.
Secondly, until a season where Pato can stay relatively healthy, like play 80% of the games, you can't count on him as your team go to guy. Personally, if you ask me, his muscular injuries are a direct result of his conditioning or lack thereof.
Thirdly, if Milan decide to balance its book with Ibra's money, the remaining strikers are SES, Pato, Cassano, Robinho and Ven if they recall Polaschi. I am really not confident in them, as Pato at max can play 50% of the games, Robino still can't score, Cassano is a question due to his heart, as you never know when that will hit again.
Lastly, if Milan does not reinforce with Ibra's money, what do you think will happen to Silva and Boateng?
Maybe not this summer but sooner or later, they will leave.
I dont hate ibra, i just dont think hes irreplacable and if were in such a financial crisis i dont see why we would keep a 31 year old

You say that ibra carries the team on his shoulders, when really i see it 50/50. he carries the team on his shoulders most the time, but the team carries him on there shoulders a lot too.. noone can deny that we structure everything around him and its most the reason why we're too one dimensional in some games..

seria a.
In 68 appearances cavanis scored 49 goals for napoli
In 61 appearances ibrahimovic scored 42 goals for us

They are not far off in goalscoring, ibra with less games hence why cavani has more goals sure.
Ibra has most likely had far more assists..

I just want a younger, faster team. champions league is end to end, and when you get teams like barca where you need to be lethal on counter attacking even torres is more useful then ibrahimovic in that matter..

overall, if i had to build milan id make it old school.. Midfield for playmaking, a quality CAM like sneijder or kaka when we had him, who can be responsible for the assists and through balls, strikers like sheva and pippo that put the ball in the back of the net..

--cavani--------------------matri---
-------------sneijder----------------
-Nocerino-Strootman--Boateng--

would be an amazing attacking line and mid, i think nocerino can play gattusos role, where boateng will do well as an energetic midfielder then an anchor is what we really need..

And btw, cavanis wage right now is probably half of ibras, because i read somewhere that napolis entire starting line up is equivlant to solemnly ibras wage.
heres your proof http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/86/italy/...s-starting

If cavanis earning 1.8mln/yr at napoli right now, what makes you think he wouldn't take 4 or 5 mln a year? doubling his wages i dont think he'd expect his wages tripled or something

Apart from that, i know that line up seems impossible^ but if we had thought that through before buying robinho,ibrahimovic and taking advantage of a former youth product for 10mln euros when he was at cagliari (matri) it couldve been very possible..

I dont mind if ibra stays but i dont mind if he goes either because he might be irreplacable if we keep everything how it is now, but no doubt we can have a better team if we sell him and invest in a striker like cavani who can score goals and keep pato fit alongside him with a cam like sneijder or ozil (just saying, fantasy but a player in those ranks) we'd have a much better overall attack, even if its not possible its just my personal opinion, get that through your head

By the way whats up will all this hope about Sneijder to Milan? Is he unhappy at Inter or what? Seriously if we can get Sneijder, Milan would jump in the league of Europe's big 3 at the moment, Bayern, Barca & Madrid
Argentina will win the World CupĀ 2022
Formerly mzk57
(05-26-2012, 05:12 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: First of all, if Milan sells Ibra and use the money to get another striker like Cavani or Tevez or Van Persie....this new striker will probably cost more than Ibra transfer and earn as much or more than Ibra. Thus the argument of earning money from Ibra transfer and saving on wages is invalid. Get this through your head, Ibra hater. On top of that, only Van Persie of the three mentioned had led their team on his shoulder and it is not 100% that they could be as good a as Ibra for Milan.
Secondly, until a season where Pato can stay relatively healthy, like play 80% of the games, you can't count on him as your team go to guy. Personally, if you ask me, his muscular injuries are a direct result of his conditioning or lack thereof.
Thirdly, if Milan decide to balance its book with Ibra's money, the remaining strikers are SES, Pato, Cassano, Robinho and Ven if they recall Polaschi. I am really not confident in them, as Pato at max can play 50% of the games, Robino still can't score, Cassano is a question due to his heart, as you never know when that will hit again.
Lastly, if Milan does not reinforce with Ibra's money, what do you think will happen to Silva and Boateng?
Maybe not this summer but sooner or later, they will leave.

Firstly, if someone thinks that selling Ibra and getting another striker (Cavani in this case) is a good option, this does not make him an Ibra hater.

Secondly, Ibra's selling price is between 25-30Mio following the rumours & his salary is 9Mio after-tax. Cavani I believe would be in the range of 30-35Mio & according to the Juve reported offer of 30Mio for 5yrs so 6Mio/yr after-tax. This means a salary saving alone of 6Mio/yr pre-tax (considering that it is always reported that the tax on salaries is 50%). So your argument of Cavani costing more than Ibra is correct but that he will earn more is not even close, so it will eventually end up being pretty much equal cost-wise. Then when you factor in that after 3 years for example, Ibra's selling value would be 0 while Cavani's would be probably at least the same (unless something dramatic happens) then we will obviously be better off financially.... Anyway, WCmilan's argument was not to make money from that business but to basically not cost us anything right now.

Thirdly, Cavani has scored 20+ in the last 2 seasons with Napoli in Serie A & scored 5 in the CL this year like Ibra. So if there is any player who could be considered low risk in terms of succeeding in Serie A, it's definitely Cavani.

Fourthly, the argument was never to sell Ibra & not get a replacement, so no need to argue that we will have to do with only Pato, Cassano, Robinho & SES.

Lastly, and that is a personal opinion which I already posted earlier, you have to compare the full package: Ibra's skill and talent is way better than Cavani & most other strikers out there (even better than CR in my opinion as i believe only Messi is more skillful) but his age, attitude, character, work rate are all against him. He is NOT A LEADER, he does not get the best out of his teammates, if anything, he makes them worse. I'm sick of people thinking we would be crap without Ibra; it's not true. With the proper replacement, we would be better....get this through your head.
not really lebrn
i dont think nocerino will be scoring lots of goals if it wasnt for ibra
but yeah
he usually doesnt get the best out of his teammates, but so did cr7
u guys might call me crazy, but i think pazzini is a decent replacement for ibra
(05-26-2012, 06:48 AM)WCmilan Wrote: .... i think nocerino can play gattusos role, where boateng will do well as an energetic midfielder then an anchor is what we really need..

Just like the Ibra-leader-we would-be-nothing-without-him crap theory, this is another one...
Nocerino is NOT Gattuso's natural replacement! And he does not have to be! Gattuso was a a phenomenon in his own way... I'm just saying that people should stop comparing them as if they were similar.
I'm not saying he's not good, the guy has scored 10(?) goals, has 3 lungs (like someone said before), & gives his heart and soul on the pitch...but please do not compare him to Gattuso. His work rate & commitment probably, his defensive skills not in a million years....his forward running and goal scoring, Gattuso can only dream of. So even if they play the same position, this does not make them comparable. They are 2 very different players.
(05-26-2012, 09:34 AM)sylrus Wrote: not really lebrn
i dont think nocerino will be scoring lots of goals if it wasnt for ibra
but yeah
he usually doesnt get the best out of his teammates, but so did cr7
u guys might call me crazy, but i think pazzini is a decent replacement for ibra

Maybe not Nocerino, but Robino might have (well maybeConfused)...but scoring is not the only way to measure how players get the best out of each other....general team performances are.

Ok, wanted to check how much Ibra had a hand in Noce's goals and found this vid on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDcYNl_eoZ8

unfortunately it only has 7 goals + some nice chances (if someone can get all his goals would be great)

of the 7 goals, Ibra was involved in 2:
One the opponent's defense failed to clear so also credit to Noce for fighting for it...
the 2nd was initial pass from Ibra to Nesta(?) who headed it to Noce.

So can hardly say that Noce's goal scoring record is due to Ibra