Before we jump to criticize the not-so-innocent clubs involved for their greed, let's also recognize the role of greed by FIFA and UEFA (and all the national associations). They are the bigger culprits in my opinion, considering all the power that they have had. They could have prevented all of these from happening should they control their greed. Have you seen how many games players have to play these days each year? I started watching football in 80s, and back then there were 16 teams in Serie A; EC champions played less than 10 match the entire season; there was one match in Toyota Cup; the World Cup had 24 teams; the Euro had 8 teams. What about now? Those numbers rose like crazy over the years. Beside all the expansion, they even create new crap (UEFA Nations League). The competition is fierce between all government bodies, between NT and clubs in who can squeeze out every ounce of whatever the players have left in their body, but nobody cares if they are tired, injured, or simply unmotivated. The players are the victims; the fans are the victims; the clubs are the victims; although players do get paid much more, and the fans also get to watch more games (quantity over quality), and top clubs see their revenue sky-rocket. This is turning into a race-to-the-bottom type of competition.
I don't like the ESL idea, mainly because I don't want to see Milan finally getting to qualify for UCL after 7 years but getting banned from it. I agree that football is not just money, but the main shame should go to UEFA and FIFA because not only they are also the greedy ones, but the corrupt ones. The clubs are greedy but they don't have power over those governing bodies, who use power to aid and glorify their own greed, legally.
Now that ESL is officially on the table, UEFA, FIFA can no longer pretend it is not going to happen. They have to face the wrath of the clubs who are the one that pay the players and run a business with risk (unlike UEFA, FIFA who pretty much are "governments"). Not surprisingly, they threaten to ban the clubs, but I believe that all parties will sit down together and work out a deal. The clubs will get more money, and the ESL will not go through. That's my prediction. There is too much at stake for every party involved. The clubs do not want to get banned (I believe that they would get banned should ESL go through); UEFA/FIFA can't afford losing these prestigious clubs either. They will find a middle ground.
One thing will remain unchanged (or continue to get worse): player welfare. The clubs are fighting not for the players, but for their own money (understandably). The clubs will get away with more, but the players will continue to be exploited and it will get worse.
So does this mean pressure is off for top four....?
(04-19-2021, 03:29 AM)honsano Wrote: So does this mean pressure is off for top four....?
Not really. Top 4 now means scudetto, if you are Atalanta, Napoli, Lazio or Roma. 
(04-19-2021, 03:01 AM)reza Wrote: Rumours *just rumours* that leagues like Serie A will threaten to not award the league if the winners are among the teams involved in this Super League, also rumour about CL and EL being suspended.
I heard that. Ultimately the leagues won't have a choice. What's Serie A without the Milan clubs and Juve. What's EPL without the big teams and La Liga without Barca, Real, Atletico.
Even UEFA. THey'll play hard ball but ultimately will cave as the top clubs will have all the appeal. The choice will be cave in or be stubborn and be faced with competitions without the worlds best players.
(04-19-2021, 03:29 AM)ACM2021 Wrote: Before we jump to criticize the not-so-innocent clubs involved for their greed, let's also recognize the role of greed by FIFA and UEFA (and all the national associations). They are the bigger culprits in my opinion, considering all the power that they have had. They could have prevented all of these from happening should they control their greed. Have you seen how many games players have to play these days each year? I started watching football in 80s, and back then there were 16 teams in Serie A; EC champions played less than 10 match the entire season; there was one match in Toyota Cup; the World Cup had 24 teams; the Euro had 8 teams. What about now? Those numbers rose like crazy over the years. Beside all the expansion, they even create new crap (UEFA Nations League). The competition is fierce between all government bodies, between NT and clubs in who can squeeze out every ounce of whatever the players have left in their body, but nobody cares if they are tired, injured, or simply unmotivated. The players are the victims; the fans are the victims; the clubs are the victims; although players do get paid much more, and the fans also get to watch more games (quantity over quality), and top clubs see their revenue sky-rocket. This is turning into a race-to-the-bottom type of competition.
I don't like the ESL idea, mainly because I don't want to see Milan finally getting to qualify for UCL after 7 years but getting banned from it. I agree that football is not just money, but the main shame should go to UEFA and FIFA because not only they are also the greedy ones, but the corrupt ones. The clubs are greedy but they don't have power over those governing bodies, who use power to aid and glorify their own greed, legally.
Now that ESL is officially on the table, UEFA, FIFA can no longer pretend it is not going to happen. They have to face the wrath of the clubs who are the one that pay the players and run a business with risk (unlike UEFA, FIFA who pretty much are "governments"). Not surprisingly, they threaten to ban the clubs, but I believe that all parties will sit down together and work out a deal. The clubs will get more money, and the ESL will not go through. That's my prediction. There is too much at stake for every party involved. The clubs do not want to get banned (I believe that they would get banned should ESL go through); UEFA/FIFA can't afford losing these prestigious clubs either. They will find a middle ground.
One thing will remain unchanged (or continue to get worse): player welfare. The clubs are fighting not for the players, but for their own money (understandably). The clubs will get away with more, but the players will continue to be exploited and it will get worse.
It will ultimately mean the new ESL becomes the "Premier" league while the UCL becomes the 2nd tier comp(Europa League).
I'm not sure clubs have much to lose as they'll be getting a significantly higher share of the $$$ vs now with UCL.
UEFA/FIFA have everything to lose though. Sponsors will leave UCL and join the new league.
They're at a crossroads now. Bend over restructure UCL to keep this league from happening or lose the UCL as it stands.
Potentially only have a Europa League and Europa League B
Where is the indication that those who set up the ESL are looking to play less games? It might lead to it but is ESL actually going to mean less games? FIFA and UEFA created more fixtures and competition cause it gains them AND the clubs more money.
Like I said above I don't believe for a second that absence of FIFA and UEFA will mean less corruption. The clubs governing themselves means less of what? Nothing at all is my bet.
I don't think any sane football fan would want this. Fans across Europe are criticizing their own clubs and are ashamed of this. The idea that something (like the participation in a league) should just be given to a club due to status, is simply wrong. If this was the case 30 years ago...would any of these clubs (our own included) have the status they have now? Answer is no. Some would and some wouldn't. But the important part is that throughout history they were given the opportunity to create this status. And so why should that opportunity not be given to other clubs next year, and in 5 years, and in 30 years?
I'm in no way saying that UEFA or the individual leagues are not corrupt or greedy. I 100% agree with Xu's post on that.
Maybe this is just 1 way to force UEFA's hand. Then again...I have no idea what the clubs were asking for to begin with? Does anyone know what they wanted that UEFA was not willing to give?
(04-19-2021, 03:42 AM)porcho Wrote: It will ultimately mean the new ESL becomes the "Premier" league while the UCL becomes the 2nd tier comp(Europa League).
I'm not sure clubs have much to lose as they'll be getting a significantly higher share of the $$$ vs now with UCL.
UEFA/FIFA have everything to lose though. Sponsors will leave UCL and join the new league.
They're at a crossroads now. Bend over restructure UCL to keep this league from happening or lose the UCL as it stands.
Potentially only have a Europa League and Europa League B
I think FIFA is actually standing on the sidelines and laughing their asses off. They've been for years trying to form a club competition and get a piece of the pie. They've never been able to achieve it since UEFA held a firm grip on it. But now, who knows. So I wouldn't be surprised if FIFA waits this out and then decides to get some kind a deal going on with the "ESL".
Still, I hope some kind of compromise is reached between UEFA and these clubs. To me, it just looks like they are tired of the governing body. They want more power. They want more money.
(04-19-2021, 03:43 AM)reza Wrote: Where is the indication that those who set up the ESL are looking to play less games? It might lead to it but is ESL actually going to mean less games? FIFA and UEFA created more fixtures and competition cause it gains them AND the clubs more money.
Like I said above I don't believe for a second that absence of FIFA and UEFA will mean less corruption. The clubs governing themselves means less of what? Nothing at all is my bet.
not sure if this is in response to my post? I don't think that ESL is looking to play less games either. It will lead to that because clubs will be banned (you said that).
The clubs on their own aren't going to work either. I do agree that there is a reason that government bodies are needed. Power breeds corruption, unfortunately, so they are corrupt. The clubs on their own will be both corrupt and ineffective, so it would be even worse.
So, pretty much we are on the same page, but I do NOT believe that FIFA/UEFA create more fixtures and competition for the benefit of players. Players are simply exploited by the clubs, UEFA/FIFA, though in the process they make more money too.
I also didn't claim that those elite clubs are fighting for the players. They just wanted more power and even more money. They have wanted this for decades and waited for a chance. The pandemic (which hurts their balance sheet) gave them a perfect excuse. The players are just chips used in a brutal game between FIFA/UEFA and clubs. I just despise the former more because they have the power. I sympathize with the players as they have even less power than the clubs. They are paid by the clubs but they could get sanctioned by FIFA/UEFA if they don't go to NT duties. They don't have any choice, even the star ones like Ronaldo or Messi.
This is a nasty game getting nastier. UEFA/FIFA and elite clubs will find a middle ground. The players and the small clubs will continue to suffer, if not even worse.
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