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Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - Printable Version

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RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - Siregar - 05-18-2012

I ever read a comment from Moggi telling why he didn't (want to) buy Hernanes. I forget what Moggi's reason is (the weakness of Hernanes). Maybe lack of consistency? Could it be also the reason that many club didn't buy him, instead a mediocre club Lazio who got him.


RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - Beppe - 05-18-2012

(05-17-2012, 08:00 PM)WCmilan Wrote: Strootman still remains my number 1 option

Strootman is not ready yet. He should play a full season at a high level at PSV first, he was terrible in the second part of the season.
He's still too young to make that big step.


RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - ACMILAN1983 - 05-18-2012

(05-18-2012, 01:20 PM)Siregar Wrote: I ever read a comment from Moggi telling why he didn't (want to) buy Hernanes. I forget what Moggi's reason is (the weakness of Hernanes). Maybe lack of consistency? Could it be also the reason that many club didn't buy him, instead a mediocre club Lazio who got him.

I take it you're referring to this:

http://football-italia.net/17137/lazio%E2%80%99s-hernanes-not-worth-%E2%82%AC30m


RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - ZvonimirBoban - 05-18-2012

(05-18-2012, 01:57 PM)Beppe Wrote:
(05-17-2012, 08:00 PM)WCmilan Wrote: Strootman still remains my number 1 option

Strootman is not ready yet. He should play a full season at a high level at PSV first, he was terrible in the second part of the season.
He's still too young to make that big step.

I got a feeling he'll star in this Euro...


RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - brasileiro - 05-18-2012

(05-16-2012, 09:52 AM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: Welcome back Brasileiro, long time no see.

I've heard interesting things about Lucas (I presume you mean Moura and not Leiva), about him maybe getting hyped a little bit early and struggling this year. This news came from Tim Vickery, who is an expert on South American football and whose opinion I hold in high regard. Not to say he's been bad, but defenders are better prepared to deal with him. My problem is, how would he play in our side?
The Moura one, this one:


I know Tim Vickery, read him at BBC, watch him at least 1 time a week here in a TV and respect ihis opinion, but not always agree with his takes.

It´s true Lucas struggle a bit early in the year, but he also had some amazing displays... but imo thats natural for a young player. I don´t know if Tim mentioned, but after the early struggle, Lucas recovered his form and was tearing up once again.

You know, Dev, I think European defenders will have a hard time with Lucas, like in the few minutes he played against Scotland. He´s BLAZING fast and I don´t know how he does it, or explain, but you(we) are always thinking he lost control, that h e touched the ball too far, but next time you see, it´s glued in his feet.

Of course, he will need to adjust to small fields, to teams playing more compacts since defenses in Europe(in most cases) plays more high than in South America. But another aspect always overlooked is how physical Lucas is, and how hard is to take him down. He´s not a big guy, but plays like he´s 6-4 200 lbs.

Regarding your final question, if in Allegri´s mind, Robinho and Boateng can be used as AMD´s, he would love what Lucas can bring to the table. If not, he is not the coach that I thought. Lucas has great work rate, and I can´t see how a coach can find a reason to not use him in the AMD role. He can even play at the side of the field, despite in my opinion, this role limit it´s potential.

If you want to play in the counter, it´s not even fair to have him. Coaches like Mourinho, Andre Villas Boas(appears Fergusson too) I know are after him, and besides to be a little selfish(like Messi, CR9, CR7, Robben, etc...), theres not too much to improve in this kid game or attitude, that is world class.
Quote:About Ganso, I would love to see some defensive statistics for him as I'm sure he averages a tackle or two a game, but it doesn't often appear to be the case because he plays at a single tempo all match (a weakness of his game). In this case, I'm sure he's a bit like Pirlo was for us, a player who seems defensively weak, but with Pirlo he had excellent interception rates. I'm not saying Ganso will have great defensive stats, but better than we might imagine. I think we also need to remember Santos play a game with a lot of freedom for their stars. Ganso and Neymar aren't given so many defensive duties as you'd expect in top clubs in Europe.
Ganso is being a huge disappointment to me since he returned from the knee injure. Remember that in the old forum, some years ago, I said I wanted Milan to buy Giuliano and not Ganso? In the same thread I was clear that Ganso was more talented than Giuliano, even using a Kaka/Ronaldinho comparison, but that in my opinion Giuliano would be a better option for Milan than Ganso.

My point at that time, was not only about Ganso work rate, but the way he accepted and got frustrated with tight marking. But after some time, with Robinho back to Santos, when the coach changed the scheme to a 3 men midfield, with two #10(Marquinhos and Ganso) and one false holder(Arouca), Ganso´s work rate and mobility changed a lot(for good). There was no way Santos had won Brazil´s Cup without a improved Ganso with that midfield.

But the truth is that since he returned, that work rate and (little)mobility disappeared... and there´s no way that I would chose this Ganso over players like Lucas, Giuliano or Oscar. Keep in mind that regarding talent alone, I only rate Lucas Moura(of the 3) above him...




RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - Siregar - 05-18-2012

(05-18-2012, 03:58 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote:
(05-18-2012, 01:20 PM)Siregar Wrote: I ever read a comment from Moggi telling why he didn't (want to) buy Hernanes. I forget what Moggi's reason is (the weakness of Hernanes). Maybe lack of consistency? Could it be also the reason that many club didn't buy him, instead a mediocre club Lazio who got him.

I take it you're referring to this:

http://football-italia.net/17137/lazio%E2%80%99s-hernanes-not-worth-%E2%82%AC30m

Yes, that is what I mean. It is a big number of money especially for Milan even it is 'only' around 20 mil euros.


RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - ACM2021 - 05-19-2012

That is some amazing Lucas video. Okmilan


RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - ACMILAN1983 - 05-19-2012

(05-18-2012, 05:34 PM)brasileiro Wrote: The Moura one, this one:


I know Tim Vickery, read him at BBC, watch him at least 1 time a week here in a TV and respect ihis opinion, but not always agree with his takes.

It´s true Lucas struggle a bit early in the year, but he also had some amazing displays... but imo thats natural for a young player. I don´t know if Tim mentioned, but after the early struggle, Lucas recovered his form and was tearing up once again.

You know, Dev, I think European defenders will have a hard time with Lucas, like in the few minutes he played against Scotland. He´s BLAZING fast and I don´t know how he does it, or explain, but you(we) are always thinking he lost control, that h e touched the ball too far, but next time you see, it´s glued in his feet.

Of course, he will need to adjust to small fields, to teams playing more compacts since defenses in Europe(in most cases) plays more high than in South America. But another aspect always overlooked is how physical Lucas is, and how hard is to take him down. He´s not a big guy, but plays like he´s 6-4 200 lbs.

Regarding your final question, if in Allegri´s mind, Robinho and Boateng can be used as AMD´s, he would love what Lucas can bring to the table. If not, he is not the coach that I thought. Lucas has great work rate, and I can´t see how a coach can find a reason to not use him in the AMD role. He can even play at the side of the field, despite in my opinion, this role limit it´s potential.

If you want to play in the counter, it´s not even fair to have him. Coaches like Mourinho, Andre Villas Boas(appears Fergusson too) I know are after him, and besides to be a little selfish(like Messi, CR9, CR7, Robben, etc...), theres not too much to improve in this kid game or attitude, that is world class.

Ganso is being a huge disappointment to me since he returned from the knee injure. Remember that in the old forum, some years ago, I said I wanted Milan to buy Giuliano and not Ganso? In the same thread I was clear that Ganso was more talented than Giuliano, even using a Kaka/Ronaldinho comparison, but that in my opinion Giuliano would be a better option for Milan than Ganso.

My point at that time, was not only about Ganso work rate, but the way he accepted and got frustrated with tight marking. But after some time, with Robinho back to Santos, when the coach changed the scheme to a 3 men midfield, with two #10(Marquinhos and Ganso) and one false holder(Arouca), Ganso´s work rate and mobility changed a lot(for good). There was no way Santos had won Brazil´s Cup without a improved Ganso with that midfield.

But the truth is that since he returned, that work rate and (little)mobility disappeared... and there´s no way that I would chose this Ganso over players like Lucas, Giuliano or Oscar. Keep in mind that regarding talent alone, I only rate Lucas Moura(of the 3) above him...

Great post.

About Tim Vickery, I have great respect because he has a incredible knowledge of South American football (not just Brazil). Like you I don't always agree with his assessments of players, but still I'll take note when he says something.

Tim didn't mention Lucas' recent form, just sort of said he had the second season syndrome (great first year, not quite as good second). That said, I want to say he never said Lucas' has been playing badly, just not his best. My biggest worry with his assessment of Lucas is he compares him a lot to Theo Walcott, maybe so the British can understand a little more about Lucas, but I think Lucas has much (MUCH) more depth to his game. About Lucas in Europe, I agree he's a player who could be great here.

About him playing AM in Milan, I think Robinho's used there more because we lack options rather than it being ideal, while Boateng's pressing is key to Allegri's system. Maybe Lucas can fit there really well, but it would require us to rethink how we want our side to play. If there is one issue I see with Lucas, it's I think he likes to dribble too much, which I see being a problem in our game where we want to move the ball really quickly.

The thing about Ganso is his talent is something that really makes me want to have him. I've always been infatuated with his game since he broke out years ago (I remember saying he even excited me more than Neymar at the time). His workrate might be an issue, but there are two things I have confidence in. The first is that he can improve on this in his game, we've seen it once, I don't see why we can't get it again. Secondly, as much as I admire Brazilian football, I think both Ganso and Neymar at Santos have reached their peak and really need to move to Europe. They are the stars in Santos and the darlings of Brazilian football, meaning they need to be challenged more to get more from them. I don't think this is possible now in Brazil, while in Europe they still have so much to prove.


RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - LebRN - 05-19-2012

The only thing that Walcott would be remotely close to Lucas in is that he is fast and probably look alike & operate mostly on the right side....it would be plain stupid to compare Walcott to Lucas on a talent level


RE: Summer 2012 - Incoming: Midfielders - ACMILAN1983 - 05-19-2012

Some similarities are there. Like you said, both look the same, rely a lot on their pace and are both natural right wingers. However, Lucas looks far more accomplished and has the ability to go onto far greater things.