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+--- Thread: Summer mercato 2012 (/showthread.php?tid=223)
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RE: Summer mercato 2012 - reza - 04-11-2012
I think Germany is a good example, they had a sort of stagnation in to the late 90s but recovered when even their biggest club paid more attention to youth and allowed the youth to graduate to the senior team. And I am sure in Germany's example an 18 team first division is also a factor.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Gabriel426 - 04-11-2012
(04-11-2012, 04:46 PM)Mystik Wrote: ^^ You say that they don't get a chance because they're not good enough. However, for them to improve they need to play games. It's a bit of a chicken and the egg thing. There's no reason why Spain's and Germany's U21 coaches have players who regularly feature in the top divison while 90% of Italy's players are in Serie B. There's also no reason why a club like Milan should be wasting money on average foreigners (e.g. Grimi) when there's a youth product who can do just as good a job. We see that it wasn't the end of the world fielding a youth product yesterday at RB (granted I haven't seen the game yet).
In a nutshell, I can't imagine that Italy as a country could just all of sudden stop producing good players. I think the bigger problem is the reluctance of managers to take a risk with their younger players.
I am for playing players who can play, but if they are not good enough, they are not good enough. You say, coaches and managers don't give me chances, but what if they are just not good enough. Both De Rossi and D Agostini came out at the same time in Roma and now only De Rossi is there as well as carrying the flag for Italy. I am not saying Italy just stop producing players, but I think players like Totti, Baggio, Pirlo only come once every 10yrs.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Gio-mania - 04-11-2012
I really envy Barcelona's youth academy. A problem we may have in implementing something similar, however, is that Barça really do have a certain brand of football they play. In the last 20 years or so we've seen a team who plays possession and total-ish football, progressing from Cruyff's side to Pep's, which is arguably one of the finer sides in footballing history. The Barça brand is strong, their goal and mentality was clear throughout. In reference to ACMILAN1983's post, while in Italy we streamline a generic type of physical player in the Catalan cantera they are producing technical and creative, but nonetheless the players that pop out all seem to be of the same type.
The problem at Milan is that we seemingly lack a goal like Barça, apart from winning of course. Our style of play varies from coach to coach. Under Carletto we saw a rather classical Italian side, keen on possession, with a catenccio-like defense and a mean counter-attack. Then along came Leonardo who tried to build a Brazil '82 side, followed by Allegri which is unlike his predecessors. A problem of course being that the players have been the same throughout, but it shows the management don't have a long term plan as did/do Barça.
Italian football in general though could benefit from long-term planning. It brings me great sorrow as an Italian to see the current defenders represent the national team. If once we had the best defense in the world we now have a stack of generic mediocre players. The same goes for other positions as well, but the stark contrast is especially visible in this case.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - GeoTav - 04-11-2012
(04-11-2012, 03:56 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: ...
I simply agree with your post ...
Actually, it seems the problem in Italy isn't talent, but the way these talents are developped ... France has had the same problem : the "old" coaches like to play with tall and strong DMs, and France has produced many "talented" DMs. The problem is while they put an effort on developping these DMs, they stopped developping creative players and nowadays, there is very few AMs or creative players in France. Laurent Blanc asked to the federation to change this trend, but like it works on the long term, that means that anyway, any change won't happen and have consequences tomorrow, but only in some years.
Same goes for Italy.
The people saying that there is just a lack of talent in Italy nowadays : how do you explain that such a small country like Netherlands manages to produce new talents (despite having an overall poor championship with no big team anymore) each season ?
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - xudong - 04-11-2012
(04-11-2012, 03:56 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: ....
You have been on fire recently! Enjoyed several of your great posts.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - will4li - 04-12-2012
I think developping system and talent pool are equally important.I don't believe la macia insanity will keep on producing for ever,when this crop of talents(especially messi) wear out, barca will be back on earth again.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Gabriel426 - 04-12-2012
As big as a Dutch fan as me, I don't think Holland is producing talented players like Brazil. I think they are in their golden generations with Sneijder, Van Der Varrt, Hunter, Van Persie, Robben, De Jong, Kuyt, Hentinga, Allefey and Van Der Miel, but after that they really don't have anyone. On top of that, a lot of them development into WC players around the age of 25 instead of someone who came out and instantly became great players. Van Persie was not a striker when he first started. Van Der Varrt was exiled to Germany. Kuyt still can't score.
I think Italy is just in a slump at the moment and they will come back with better players in the future.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Siregar - 04-12-2012
(04-11-2012, 05:46 PM)GeoTav Wrote: The people saying that there is just a lack of talent in Italy nowadays : how do you explain that such a small country like Netherlands manages to produce new talents (despite having an overall poor championship with no big team anymore) each season ?
I do think, there is correlation between the trust of the clubs in the country to the local players (like in Germany for example) with the producing of good quality of local players. The reformation of the youth development in Germany a decade ago plays big role for their success now in producing quality players but the trust from the club itself also support the development of the young players, IMO. In Italy the trust is getting lower and lower. When teams like Milan and Juve splashed big money to buy foreign stars (in 90s), the small clubs in Serie A gived chances to the local players. Now, the small clubs develop young players from other country, gives less chance for Italian players to develop in Serie A and B.
Italy really should follow Spain or Germany in how they have B team in lower-level competition (especially in Spain, the B team can promote to Segunda Division if the A team play in Primera Division). Players like Merkel, Strasser, De Sciglio, Calvano, Carmona etc could be really usefull for Milan when after they have played 1-2 seasons in Primavera, play regularly for example in Serie C (or better in Serie B like in Spain) and would be included to Milan first team when Milan need them like this season when so many players are injured (but the problem is they have no experience like De Sciglio except players like Merkel and Strasser).
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Aficio - 04-12-2012
(04-12-2012, 04:27 AM)Siregar Wrote: ...
Nice avatar, mate. I hope you won't change it
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - ACMILAN1983 - 04-12-2012
(04-11-2012, 10:24 PM)xudong Wrote:(04-11-2012, 03:56 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: ....
You have been on fire recently! Enjoyed several of your great posts.
lol, thanks. I enjoy discussing football and generally have a lot of thoughts on the subject. Problem is I rarely get time to post most of it.