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+--- Thread: Winter Mercato 2014 (/showthread.php?tid=560)
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - xudong - 01-19-2014
That was one nice broken record, Dev.
If you would allow me to play my own broken record, I would like to elaborate on Galliani's biggest advantage which is his negotiation skills. Actually, it is a combination of a few factors. See below.
1. He is known to be cheap, and that reputation will help him secure players at a very low price from a desperate/sincere sellers because they know that Galliani would rather walk away and come back the next year than pay a few extra dimes this time; of course if the sellers aren't desperate, then Galliani's such trick would be right away rendered useless.
2. Galliani has a good connection, which is a result of (a) he has been in the trade for long; (b) he usually is respectful, unlike many other colleagues who have a foul mouth or evil heart; ( c) he treats Milan players nicely and treats the reporters nicely too, and of course words spread; (d) he sells cheap, so clubs that have benefited may be grateful, and other clubs would be hopeful too in the future; (e) maybe he has some crazy, under-the-counter deals that make him likeable, that's of course only a speculation, but we have seen several strange deals that otherwise make no financial or athletic sense.
3. Galliani also does possess some quite valuable behind-the-scene strategic skills. Most deals that actually went through were those unexpected by fans or reporters. He seems to enjoy playing with the media and manipulating them to his service, and such unpredictability is part of his good negotiation skills, and of course the most famous case has to be we chased Cannavaro for the entire summer and ended up with Nesta in a last-minute deal. But recent years, he seems to have enjoyed it too much and his success rate has plummeted. Also, I actually wonder maybe it has to do with the increasingly intensified media exposure these days. I know there was internet 10 years back but I don't think every fan knew every move or every potential move, there wasn't tweeter that fanatically followed Galliani and his entourage everywhere, so maybe he was just doing the same thing but now the super-easily accessible, overwhelming information is hurting his game. Galliani thrived with asymmetric information, and it is hard for him to learn the new trick to adapt to this evolving reality (with close-to-perfect information, eventually money talks); or maybe he doesn't want to adapt. I don't blame him for that, but he has to admit that his toolkit is no longer current and eventually, if you can't keep up with the game, you have to quit or you will be thrown out of the game.
Going back to your points, Dev, I think that we all agree that Galliani should see his role reduced to negotiations only, and let other good people have a chance to serve this great club with their talent. But I think we all know the problem: Galliani does not want to share. Galliani felt threatened even when Maldini was still playing for us, let alone now, and that's hurting this club dearly. So he has to go, simple as that.
Another thought (also related to your analysis): instead of buying young players from elsewhere, we can always try to count on our own products. That would greatly reduce the financial risk, as we don't have to pay anyone any money. The first team coach will just work with the primavera coach, promoting a few primavera players by inviting them to train together, and maybe inserting one or two in some insignificant games. If they prove to be good, more chances can be given; not good enough? no harm done, just back to the primavera rank; really good? give them a professional contract and go from there. They usually don't ask for a lot of money either, at least not until they turn out to be great.
Of course, that can be helped if we all use the same formation and similar philosophy in every levels of Milan team, that way, our own youth products can be directly plugged into the first team, as long as they possess good quality instead of having to learn a new system and wither during the process. I believe that Ajax and Barcelona are doing that, and I think we should and can learn from them.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - ACMILAN1983 - 01-19-2014
Thanks Xu and I agree, as long as Galliani remains Maldini won't return. About your points:
1. I think this is questionable, as a lot of the quality players he gets for the cheap price are often in a situation where there's an opportunity to get them as such (e.g. Ibra and Robinho were dead set on leaving their clubs when we signed them). Not to say Galliani isn't capable of pulling off a great deal and hasn't done so before, but I just think it's a little overrated.
2. Agree, he does have good connections...
a) Agree
b) I'm sure CSKA and Fiorentina would respectfully disagree
c) Not necessarily true, just look at his relationship with some of our ex-players, notably Maldini. Also, I'm sure the way he treated Ambro isn't particularly nice.
d) I think he sells ok. He got good money for Kaka, Thiago Silva and Ibra.
e) I think this is probably rather than maybe
3. The last minute market deals are imo questionable, I'm not a huge fan for a number of reasons. Ultimately though, for every Nesta or Ibra, you have your Ricardo Oliveira or Matri's
About the last part, Xu I'm totally on board with you here. I'm absolutely for us to try and build a successful youth development system and for me it's paramount we succeed in this respect. This is another reason I want a figure like Maldini. It's all good if First team coaches work together with youth coaches, but imo we need someone to oversee that integration and manage it. Again, a first team coach isn't necessarily going to take time out of a busy schedule to manage this and oversee something that could impact their immediate duties, so someone at a higher level doing this and ensuring the same philosophy (I've often used the word culture too) is being taught from top to bottom is vital.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - xudong - 01-19-2014
Dev, I don't think we got good money out of Kaka, Silva or Ibrahimovic. If Andy Carroll can go for 50M, we should have got at least 200M out of them three combined. Honestly, except for Ibra (still, I wouldn't mind him staying), I would NOT even consider selling them for any price. The cost is great and can't even measured by money.
Also, just to be clear, I am not a big fan of those last-minute deals either. With the exception of those superior individuals (Ibra, Nesta), all others have found huge difficulty adapting into the team when the season is already under way, and most often than not, they have failed. I simply stated that Galliani enjoys doing that to exploit the desperate sellers but it really hurts the team.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - Alan - 01-20-2014
andy carroll was young and english. english players are a premium in england because clubs want to play with homegrown players because it's good for their image and there's so few good ones, there's also so much money in the EPL that you have to offer crazy amounts to transfer between clubs. you can't look at him as representative of value. suarez transfered in the same window to liverpool for about half the price and he's probably just as good as ibrahimovic.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - xudong - 01-20-2014
I was referring to the rumored 120M price when we could have sold Kaka to City; instead, we lost almost half six months later. Also, for Shevchenko's status and Abramovich's wealth and eagerness, we sold Shevchenko way too cheap. It is not easy to get a lot of cash on Ibrahimovic due to his age, but we should not have sold him (Honestly, we should not have bought him to start with. His salary broke Milan's finance and initiated a whole chain of bad action. It is all Galliani's fault. I do like Ibrahimovic actually). We should not have sold Silva either at any price, and you can't get anyone to adequately replace him with that money; the same applies to Ibrahimovic's case.
Milan was never known as a selling club. I remember when we sold Kluivert to Barcelona for 13M, it was already the record of out-transfer fee. Now we may have to get used to it.
I hope that Galliani leaves quickly. I love this man for his passion, but his mismanagement is costing Milan greatly, and whenever he tries to fix it, he simply creates more mess.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - Siregar - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 03:36 AM)xudong Wrote: I was referring to the rumored 120M price when we could have sold Kaka to City; instead, we lost almost half six months later. Also, for Shevchenko's status and Abramovich's wealth and eagerness, we sold Shevchenko way too cheap. It is not easy to get a lot of cash on Ibrahimovic due to his age, but we should not have sold him (Honestly, we should not have bought him to start with. His salary broke Milan's finance and initiated a whole chain of bad action. It is all Galliani's fault. I do like Ibrahimovic actually). We should not have sold Silva either at any price, and you can't get anyone to adequately replace him with that money; the same applies to Ibrahimovic's case.
Milan was never known as a selling club. I remember when we sold Kluivert to Barcelona for 13M, it was already the record of out-transfer fee. Now we may have to get used to it.
I hope that Galliani leaves quickly. I love this man for his passion, but his mismanagement is costing Milan greatly, and whenever he tries to fix it, he simply creates more mess.
Agree with this.
Berlusconi should wake up and realize dan Galliani should step away from his current position. However the change should be smooth, Galliani has proved how he loves Milan, he should not leave the club just like the shocked news a couple of months ago. We are a family, a trademark for years. Member of the family should not be kicked out just like that.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - xudong - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 04:09 AM)Siregar Wrote:(01-20-2014, 03:36 AM)xudong Wrote: I was referring to the rumored 120M price when we could have sold Kaka to City; instead, we lost almost half six months later. Also, for Shevchenko's status and Abramovich's wealth and eagerness, we sold Shevchenko way too cheap. It is not easy to get a lot of cash on Ibrahimovic due to his age, but we should not have sold him (Honestly, we should not have bought him to start with. His salary broke Milan's finance and initiated a whole chain of bad action. It is all Galliani's fault. I do like Ibrahimovic actually). We should not have sold Silva either at any price, and you can't get anyone to adequately replace him with that money; the same applies to Ibrahimovic's case.
Milan was never known as a selling club. I remember when we sold Kluivert to Barcelona for 13M, it was already the record of out-transfer fee. Now we may have to get used to it.
I hope that Galliani leaves quickly. I love this man for his passion, but his mismanagement is costing Milan greatly, and whenever he tries to fix it, he simply creates more mess.
Agree with this.
Berlusconi should wake up and realize dan Galliani should step away from his current position. However the change should be smooth, Galliani has proved how he loves Milan, he should not leave the club just like the shocked news a couple of months ago. We are a family, a trademark for years. Member of the family should not be kicked out just like that.
... which is why I am all for Galliani getting a "reduced" role and eventually getting phased out, but someone has to convince this stubborn old man that it wouldn't be the end of the world. :d He seems to take it very personally.
Galliani isn't stupid in politics though. I think he made that "I quit" announcement last year just to test the water. He probably anticipated that Berlusconi would not let him leave Milan like that so he would certainly intervene, so maybe Galliani wasn't really planning to quit altogether anyway with his bluffing. But he used that ultimatum to put Silvio on the spot and wanted to see how the big guy would react.
It seems that Berlusconi did what he had to do. He calmed Galliani down, saved his face and Milan's image, but then right away he set up two co-CEOs. What a huge BS, but maybe that's his subtle yet firm way to communicate to Galliani that he should be ready for the new reality to kick in and that he should be ready to be phased out. If all those speculation was correct, then Berlusconi's co-CEO BS would be a brilliant move. But of course, Barbara isn't really ready yet (and I don't know if she ever will be), and Milan should be actively on the watchout for personnel for our new administration.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - ElMago99 - 01-20-2014
Galliani needs to leave fast. Because he continues to damage the club, and any smooth transition would further destroy the club. Galliani is not fit for the role anymore, and he will not accept less power.
I don't know who should replace him, but he needs to leave. He's been responsible for so many fuck-up's over the last 5 years or so, it's beyond ridiculous.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - Mathias - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 03:14 PM)ElMago99 Wrote: Galliani needs to leave fast. Because he continues to damage the club, and any smooth transition would further destroy the club. Galliani is not fit for the role anymore, and he will not accept less power.
I don't know who should replace him, but he needs to leave. He's been responsible for so many fuck-up's over the last 5 years or so, it's beyond ridiculous.
He's cost us millions. Literally Millions. We GOT those millions by winning. However we do not win anymore. His head is on the chopping block but I figure he's got so much dirt on the Berlusconi family that they can't fire him. The guy loves AC Milan, but he's not fit for the technical position.
We're now being linked to steven defour from Porto. A guy who's quiet, and the absolute opposite of Man City Balotelli. He's a solid player and I believe he could add. But we're crowded in midfield and he's not a bench player.
RE: Winter Mercato 2014 - Alan - 01-20-2014
cortese is launching his own takeover bid at southampton so I guess has no interest in taking up the role here. plus maybe a bit too much of a control freak to ever really get on with berlu if he does that, though I still rate him as fantastic candidate.