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RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Siregar - 06-15-2011
(06-15-2011, 09:38 PM)Hasan Rossonero Wrote:(06-15-2011, 06:38 PM)Siregar Wrote: There was link posted by Hasan IIRC telling about Udinese's financial situation and also how they loan many players to Spanish club in second tier league (Segunda Division).
That was Sputnik.
Sorry man, I forget things easily.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Hitman - 06-15-2011
El Shaarawy hasn't played that much professional (a bit less than Pato when we bought him)... Pato was 17, non-EU and the star/leader of the U-21 Brazil team and Internacional, Stephan is 18 and Italian, lead Padova to promotion from C1 to B.
El Shaarawy is being rated just as much as how Pato was (partly due to the Italian media overrating players).
Now we compare the prices Galliani has shelved out for players in last 10 years:
- Pato was bought at 17 for 22m euro -- we believed he was going to be the next best Brazil striker an we thought 22m Euro was worth it.
- Kaka was bought at 22 yrs old for 6m euro, was very highly rated by the world of football and Milan.
- Gila, Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic were all strikers bought for 24m euro
- Fossati, highly rated 16 year old Italian midfielder, was bought for 5m euro.
- Silva, now best defender out there, bought at 25m years old for 12m euro.
and El Shaarawy for 18, (i dont think he is higher rated than Merkel or Fossati), we bought 50% of his contract for 7.5m euro (so that means, as of today, we consider him worth 15m).... if Milan is willing to splash 15m on an 18 year old, in a time that the cash is very important for a team like Milan, then it must mean we really believe he is the next big thing. I dont think he is worth the amount though.
I am also very very disappointed we gave away 50% of Merkel for a reported 5m. IMO, Merkel's 50% sale is a lose-lose situation. We have gained absolutely nothing. If we wanted him to play in Serie A, we should have loaned him either to Genoa or Novara. He's going to go to Genoa and Preziosi will give us a hard time when we try to get the other 50%...it could easily go up 2 or 3 million more at the very least - even if he has a bad season.
In conclusion,
I think El Shaarawy is not worth 15m, however I think buying 50% for 7.5 now is better than buying 100% next year for 20m. If he isn't 7.5m good enough, we could sell back to Genoa for the same amount. I think it is a good piece of business only if we already have enough money for our other primary targets for the team.
Merkel's 50% sale to Genoa is a lose-lose situation and I really dislike that move. I think we already lost alot of money to Genoa buying back Strasser, Zigoni and Paloschi because all three of them went up in stock. Now they will have Beretta, El Shaarawi and Merkel - our best 3 youngsters (meaning that the ones we want and value the most) - on co-ownership with them. We do not gain anything from this - in my opinion. I would be really glad if someone can explain to me if I am wrong.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Hasan Rossonero - 06-15-2011
(06-15-2011, 09:54 PM)Siregar Wrote:(06-15-2011, 09:38 PM)Hasan Rossonero Wrote: That was Sputnik
Sorry man, I forget things easily.
No need to apologize. I hear you. Today I forgot to bring my lunch to work. It is sitting on the counter at home.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Ca Rossonero - 06-15-2011
(06-15-2011, 09:58 PM)Hitman Wrote: El Shaarawy hasn't played that much professional (a bit less than Pato when we bought him)... Pato was 17, non-EU and the star/leader of the U-21 Brazil team and Internacional, Stephan is 18 and Italian, lead Padova to promotion from C1 to B.
False on 2 accounts (which makes me question if you watched either)
-Pato was considered a big failure with 2007 u21 world cup. They lost in rd of 16 to spain.
-El Shaarawy didn't play in C1. Padova finished 5th in Serie B last year. They won first round of promotion playoff but lost final to novara, thus are not coming up. He was still driving force of team..
Quote:El Shaarawy is being rated just as much as how Pato was (partly due to the Italian media overrating players).
Pato got hyped because of his big showing v. barca in 2006 world cup cup
The italian media hyping is nothing compared to Brazilian media either. Kerlon? Youth is always hyped.
Serie B is very comparable to south america (minus the libertadores, which is a higher level).
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Hitman - 06-15-2011
(06-15-2011, 10:54 PM)Ca Rossonero Wrote:(06-15-2011, 09:58 PM)Hitman Wrote: El Shaarawy hasn't played that much professional (a bit less than Pato when we bought him)... Pato was 17, non-EU and the star/leader of the U-21 Brazil team and Internacional, Stephan is 18 and Italian, lead Padova to promotion from C1 to B.
False on 2 accounts (which makes me question if you watched either)
-Pato was considered a big failure with 2007 u21 world cup. They lost in rd of 16 to spain.
-El Shaarawy didn't play in C1. Padova finished 5th in Serie B last year. They won first round of promotion playoff but lost final to novara, thus are not coming up. He was still driving force of team..
Quote:El Shaarawy is being rated just as much as how Pato was (partly due to the Italian media overrating players).
Pato got hyped because of his big showing v. barca in 2006 world cup cup
The italian media hyping is nothing compared to Brazilian media either. Kerlon? Youth is always hyped.
Serie B is very comparable to south america (minus the libertadores, which is a higher level).
Always love questioning people on here dont you?
and about El Shaarawi, no I havent, and neither have you and neither has anyone on here watched a single Padova game from Serie B, so dude, zip it.
and about Pato - as a matter of fact, I went to two of the games in the U-21 World Cup and saw Pato play infront of me.. he didn't play as good as we expected him to, but he wasn't that bad... regardless of how bad he flopped according to you, Galliani still bought him for 22m Euro.... and yeah, he had a good game against Barca in the Club World Cup, but Pato shot to fame for being 17 and being a leader and carried Internacionale to a Copa Libertadores title I believe...
Have some respect with people to get respected back
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Siregar - 06-15-2011
So what is the amount of money for Merkel's and El Shaarawy's contract?
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Gio-mania - 06-15-2011
I actually haven't seen El Shaarawy play, heck I didn't even know who was until now. So I wont judge his qualities or whether he is worth it. But I just cannot accept that we give up half of Merkel for him. Clearly we highly rate El Shaa. An alternate interpretation is that we rate Merkel very lowly. Or a combination.
Lets say we want them both later, meaning both will have impressed or done well. El Shaa will end up costing us the initial 7.5 million (my source, La Gazzetta, says 7 million; what difference lol) and the other half, which will be higher than what we originally planned. I'd say maybe 10 million, depends on how much he impresses. Merkel too will be a difficult bargain should we like his progress. Right now it's 5 million (according to what you've all said) so it could go up to 7-8. Therefore a grand total of 7.5 + 10 + 7.5 = 25 million euros. That is what we will really be paying for him. I guess we really rate him.
Also I'm not sure why we feel he is ready to play, if even as a back-up, in the first team while Merkel isn't. I hope Dr. Galliani knows what he is doing.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Siregar - 06-15-2011
(06-15-2011, 11:39 PM)Gio-mania Wrote: I actually haven't seen El Shaarawy play, heck I didn't even know who was until now. So I wont judge his qualities or whether he is worth it. But I just cannot accept that we give up half of Merkel for him. Clearly we highly rate El Shaa. An alternate interpretation is that we rate Merkel very lowly. Or a combination.
Lets say we want them both later, meaning both will have impressed or done well. El Shaa will end up costing us the initial 7.5 million (my source, La Gazzetta, says 7 million; what difference lol) and the other half, which will be higher than what we originally planned. I'd say maybe 10 million, depends on how much he impresses. Merkel too will be a difficult bargain should we like his progress. Right now it's 5 million (according to what you've all said) so it could go up to 7-8. Therefore a grand total of 7.5 + 10 + 7.5 = 25 million euros. That is what we will really be paying for him. I guess we really rate him.
There are still many assumptions about the price for both players. Others said 6 mil euro or 6.8 mil euro for El Shaarawy and 4 mil euros, 5 mil euros and even 1.3 mil euros for Merkel (half of contract for both of them).
About your calculation, it is not really like that. You should also put -5 mil euros from 25 mil euros since we get 5 mil euros now (assumption: Merkel costs 5 mil euros for half of the contract).
(06-15-2011, 11:39 PM)Gio-mania Wrote: Also I'm not sure why we feel he is ready to play, if even as a back-up, in the first team while Merkel isn't. I hope Dr. Galliani knows what he is doing.
I could miss the post that the fans here are sure that El Shaarwy is ready to play even as back-up. He did well in Serie B according to the news and his stats but playing in Serie A especially with Milan is another level, not just one level above Padova/Serie B quality. I am not talking about his talent since talent can't be defined solely from the competition the player play in.
Another thought about El Shaarawy. If the scenario is that his price will go to 20 mil euros after having games in Serie A. This means that either Milan or Genoa have to pay 10 mil euros to get him. If Genoa take him, Genoa will lose 2.5 mil euros (10 mil euros - 7.5 mil euros we give now) and Milan will earn 2.5 mil euros (but losing the player). Other option is Genoa get more money (from 7.5 raised to 10 mil euros) which will increase the initial price of 15 mil euros to 20 mil euros. It means, Milan need to add 2.5 mil euros from the initial half of the contract's price (total Milan will pay: 17.5 mil euros). So for Milan it shouldn't be bad if his price goes higher since the increase of the price divided to both clubs (not only one club).
Let say another scenario. His price increases to 30 mil euros. Milan have to pay 15 mil euros. The total Milan pay is then 22.5 mil euros (7.5+15 mil euros). If he really turns to be a player worth of 30 mil euros, then it is not bad move for Milan to get such player for 22.5 mil euros (7.5 mil euros at the beginning and 15 mil euros later).
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Gio-mania - 06-16-2011
Well I agree that if El Shaa's price becomes higher it's because he will have shown to be a quality player and therefore probably worth it.
When we give Genoa half of Merkel's price tag in the deal, they aren't paying us 5 million (if that's the amount anyway). The fact is we are giving it up in a deal worth 7.5, so technically speaking El Shaa is worth 7.5 + 1/2 Merkels value.
Actually at the end of the day if we want them both we can have them. We will just be paying extra for their additional value, which is sort of a way to reduce risks, and then to get Merkel back. We are using him to sweeten the deal but his value ultimately reflects on the second half of El Shaa's price tag, so we cannot just ignore this. All in all we will probably be spending 5-10 million more this way, unless of course their values skyrocket to extremes, but this way we have a slight safety net. We could just sell Genoa back our half next season, even if to a lower amount.
Of course there is the chance we postpone the co-ownership decision, at which point we could actually get the other half of the players for literally 1 euro [sic]. We wont risk that much, but usually teams bid low numbers like € 50,000 in these situations. But this is risky business.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Ca Rossonero - 06-16-2011
(06-15-2011, 11:19 PM)Hitman Wrote: Always love questioning people on here dont you?
I question when you're flat out wrong like w/ him playing C1
Quote:and about El Shaarawi, no I havent, and neither have you and neither has anyone on here watched a single Padova game from Serie B, so dude, zip it.
Actually, I have seen him. Don't assume I haven't when you don't know. I even posted about him couple weeks back.
I get Rai, i saw the Serie B promotion playoffs because I was curious to watch him. He was super hyped by fam I have in italy. And anyway, playoffs are always exciting. Teams playing for their lives...
He didn't disappoint. Man of Match v. Varese with 2 goals including the one for them to advance. They came from behind to draw 3-3::
(if you're too lazy goals come around 0:44 and 2:00)
Quote:and about Pato - as a matter of fact, I went to two of the games in the U-21 World Cup and saw Pato play infront of me.. he didn't play as good as we expected him to, but he wasn't that bad... regardless of how bad he flopped according to you, Galliani still bought him for 22m Euro.... and yeah, he had a good game against Barca in the Club World Cup, but Pato shot to fame for being 17 and being a leader and carried Internacionale to a Copa Libertadores title I believe...
Actually, I watched it too. The consensus was he dissapointed and Lima was more impressive. I don't care but lets not build the legend of pato as if he was Ronaldo. Ronaldo was already awesome in europe at 17, maybe the best forward in europe at 18...
Leader is also MISLEADING.. Usually leaders play in cup competitions they win. He didn't play in the 2006 libertadores.... the one which International won. He didn't even make the bench
For the record he did play 2007 libertadores and international did not make it out of group stage. He performed well in brasiliero, which is no joke. Especially in porto allegri region which is notoriously more physical. He was a huge prospect, but proven.. nah
Anyway I don't know why we are discussing Pato. No nation hypes more players that flop than Brazil (maybe argentina). Its how they make money.
Finally, your example proves the point. Galliani NEVER spends big on youngsters (and el shaarawy would quality) if they aren't highly rated by our scouts. As far as I'm concerned, Galliani is too conservative in this regard.
Quote:Have some respect with people to get respected back
I show respect to people who actually know what they are talking about.