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+--- Thread: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe (/showthread.php?tid=720)
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - ACMILAN1983 - 07-08-2014
Androgynous, I've often heard comments that Brazilian football (particularly at club level) feels a kind of identity crisis at the moment as Brazil don't produce highly technical footballers in recent years (exceptions like Neymar aside) and have been overtaken by other nations, notably Spain.
Would you agree with this assessment and do you think this trend is changing and Brazilian football is on the verge of change to develop more technical players? I'm interested in reading a Brazilian perspective on the matter, as well as this being related to my comments below.
(07-08-2014, 12:11 AM)Aficio Wrote: I'm disappointed because this match requires better ref.
And you know that I hate Brazil
Yes, but it's not like Brazil chose the ref, though in all honesty, the refereeing in this competition has been terrible in general.
Why do you hate Brazil as well? If it's because your expectations of them is to play beautiful football in keeping with their traditions, then is it the fault of this group of players that they can't play this way? Bear in mind that while they are still a group of technically gifted players, they don't have the skills or mindset of the traditional Brazilian sides and have been developed for European football so that Brazilian clubs can make money. Here's the post that I wrote in the Brazil - Colombia thread on my thoughts on this (easier than re-writing it
).(07-08-2014, 10:44 AM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: Problem is football has globalised and Brazil has changed in the way it develops it's players (most of who are developed for the European game). The current generation can't play the old Joga Bonito football and I think it's unfair to judge this group of players because of it. Italy can't defend anymore and instead is now a better possession playing side (the Costa Rica and Uruguay matches aside). Other nations (E.g. Holland with Total football and German efficiency) are also no longer in keeping with their traditions as influences from other nations come in.
I don't think this is a problem for these nations, even if I think places like Brazil and Italy should look back at their roots. I also think Brazil will return to developing more technical players with less focus on the athlete. I say this because in recent years, the shift in the European game has been towards more technically gifted players.
I'm often defending Brazil on the forums during this world cup and I think part of it comes down to the fact that people (me included) want to see the beautiful football of old, which as I said, this Brazil simply can't do. I also must admit that this group of players have my respect in the mental resilience they've shown, something seriously lacking at the last two world cups.
I also don't get why Brazil are treated as though they bought this competition (as I've said before, I don't mean on the forums so much as just the general comments around them). They had some (actually one clear) call in their favour against Croatia, which is the penalty. I understand people may wonder about other calls or lack of recriminations in their favour, but at the same time if you look at the general standard of refereeing in this tournament, it's not out of the ordinary that this happens. On the flip side, Chile and Colombia got away with some extremely nasty tackles against them and particularly Neymar (who let's not forget is in hospital with a broken back, while the person who fouled him has seen no action against him).
I don't even support Brazil, but I just don't understand this backlash they've faced this world cup. I agree with those that want to see a more aesthetically pleasing side as it's those sides that inspired me in so many ways while growing up. Truth is though, football, the teams and players change and evolve over time and that's what's happened here.
We should also remember that Brazil's road to the semis has been anything but simple (bar Cameroon). Croatia are a very good side with experience and quality in defence, two of the best midfielders in Europe and the Bundesliga's second highest scorer this past season (and Bayern's top scorer).
Mexico have been excellent this tournament showing great technical quality and adeptness throughout. Let's not forget they were 5 minutes away from knocking out the Dutch.
As for Chile and Colombia, we're talking about two dark horses for the tournament and in the view of others, two of the favourites to go the whole way. They were battles which if I'm honest I don't know if any of the other teams in the semis were prepared to cope with.
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - ZvonimirBoban - 07-08-2014
As for the problem with Brazil and technical players... I don't know what player in this world can be considered as 'technical'? Dribbling is getting harder and harder now with the evolving tactics and physicality. Name me ten or twelve most 'technical' players in this world and we'll see whether Brazil's amount of those players are far less than other countries or not.
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - ACMILAN1983 - 07-08-2014
I'd say technical players (those above average technical qualities at least) are those who can use and do things with the ball an average player can't. Spain, for example, have a high number of technically gifted players over the past 5 years, moreso than their past which wasn't bad in this regard anyway. Germany are another who have more technically gifted players than the average team. Italy too. I'm aware Spain and Italy haven't impressed in this world cup, but I don't think that's a reflection of how gifted their players are with the ball.
Brazil aren't lacking for technical quality, but they haven't got the same advantage they historically have had, particularly 1950 and 1970.
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - reza - 07-08-2014
Luiz and Dante will have their hands full, Gustavo needs to have a monster game
Julio Cesar; Maicon, David Luiz, Dante, Marcelo; Fernandinho, Gustavo; Bernard, Oscar, Hulk; Fred.
Neuer; Lahm, Hummels, Boateng, Hoewedes; Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Kroos; Ozil, Klose, Muller.
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - Nalx - 07-08-2014
(07-08-2014, 08:05 PM)reza Wrote: Luiz and Dante will have their hands full, Gustavo needs to have a monster game
Julio Cesar; Maicon, David Luiz, Dante, Marcelo; Fernandinho, Gustavo; Bernard, Oscar, Hulk; Fred.
Neuer; Lahm, Hummels, Boateng, Hoewedes; Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Kroos; Ozil, Klose, Muller.
On paper both teams start with their strongest, attack-oriented players available. Hopefully that'll translate into the game itself. See you guys after the game. (Or not, since it's already 2 AM here.)
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - Aficio - 07-08-2014
@Dev: I read the old post, and I enjoyed it. Love and hate are emotion, so logic can't fully express
though the performances of Brazil were not technical enough for me So I don't want Brazil to win the Cup, because they will think this is the right way to do football, and my egoistic expectation will die
Brazil players easy to slip, ref easy to blow. Anyway, Germany scored, Muller scored.
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - xudong - 07-08-2014
That was fast. Brazil has a mountain to climb now.
Am I crazy in thinking that a Kaka or Ronaldinho or even Pato could have helped Brazil at this very moment (i.e. Germany leading, Brazil seems toothless, tons of time left)?
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - Aficio - 07-08-2014
And here comes the record! Hail Klose!!!
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - xudong - 07-08-2014
Wow, Klose breaking Ronaldo's record in Brazil, to return the favor that Ronaldo broke Muller's record in Germany?
What a heartbreaker for Brazilian fans. I thought that Germany would win, but didn't see such an easy opening.
RE: Semifinals: Football summit - South America vs Europe - Aficio - 07-08-2014
And 3:0