(09-20-2017, 07:26 PM)WCmilan Wrote: Galliani in the last 5 years, criticise him all we want. Before that, he and Berlusconi were legends, period. Nothing but respect for them.

(09-21-2017, 02:21 AM)Nicolas Wrote: I disagree. Galliani and Berlusconi dropped the ball and wrecked the club by their actions following the CL triumph in ’07.

Instead of building upon the momentum, and slowly starting the process of rebuilding an already ageing squad, they simply went ahead and extended the expensive contracts of every member of the squad. The only significant additions to the team that summer was Emerson and Pato. On the other hand, we sold Borriello - only to buy him back at a €7M loss the year after.

As we all remember the following season we weren’t even able to qualify for Champions League again. The team was crumbling and falling apart, and the season ended with a unworthy farewell to Maldini.

This again should have been a point where the re-building of the team ought to have begun. But instead Galliani and Berlusconi went for shortsighted solutions by bringing in Ronaldinho, Zambrotta and Sheva while loaning Beckham and Senderos. Only redeeming action was to sign Thiago Silva.

Then the cracks really began to show, as Ancelotti left, along with Kaká. Galliani convinced Leonardo to take the job as our manager instead of going out to find one with the experience and skills needed for such a position. This meant that we’d have a mediocre season, and we lost the man who found some of our biggest stars. Like putting a bandage on a broken bone, we brought in Huntelaar as our big signing that summer.

The new year saw us bring in a new coach in Allegri, and a slew of players, mostly unwanted by their own teams, in Boateng, Cassano, Van Bommel, Robinho and of course Ibrahimovic. Mostly due to Zlatan and our rival’s ineptitude we won the league. 

Again instead of signing young quality players needed to gradually replace the old guard of Nesta, Seedorf, Gattuso and Inzaghi and the likes, Galliani brought in a bulk of mediocre bit part players like Nocerino, Maxi Lopéz, Taiwo, Mesbah, Muntari and Aquilani. Only ray of sunshine was El Shaarawy.

This was followed by several years where the team would get gradually worse, as each of our stars left. We sought to replace Thiago Silva with Zapata and Zlatan with Pazzini. We hoped that Balotelli would magically become a sane person here. Short gab signings like Essien, Torres, Kaká, Menéz, Taarabt, Cerci and Matri were all added in the hope that some of them would work wonders here. 

All while Galliani was moaning about lacking funds, he seemingly never once realised that the funds were tied up in expensive long running contracts, that he for some reason kept renewing to a point were we had to pay other clubs to take our players. 

On top of that he brought in a spectacular list of WTF signings like Legrottaglie, Mesbah, Mancini, Onyewu, Traoré, Constant, Zaccardo, Silvestre and Brisa. Players that had no place anywhere near a team of Milan’s stature.

To top it off, he wasted our precious non-EU spots on players Grimi, Cardacio, Viúdez, Montelongo, Péle, Gabriel and Vergara. None of them were ever given a chance in the team, but they were kept on the books for several years. One has to wonder what players could have taken those spots if we had a proper scouting network.

To me the last 10 years with Galliani and Berlusconi were disastrous to the club. They failed to add any new players capable of carrying on the legacy of icons like Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Kaká, Seedorf, Sheva or Inzaghi. They brought in a lot of players with difficult personalities which eroded the core of the team, as there were no positive leaders left to steer the team in the right direction. They lost all the people responsible for finding our best players and relied entirely on collaborating with agents. They brought in one ill-fitted manager after the other, and let them go too soon because of impatience and negative influencers amongst the squad. To sum up, they left the club in a state that was almost as bad as when Berlusconi bought it. This goes back far beyond the past 5 years.

(09-21-2017, 02:21 AM)Nicolas Wrote: I disagree. Galliani and Berlusconi dropped the ball and wrecked the club by their actions following the CL triumph in ’07.

Instead of building upon the momentum, and slowly starting the process of rebuilding an already ageing squad, they simply went ahead and extended the expensive contracts of every member of the squad. The only significant additions to the team that summer was Emerson and Pato. On the other hand, we sold Borriello - only to buy him back at a €7M loss the year after.

As we all remember the following season we weren’t even able to qualify for Champions League again. The team was crumbling and falling apart, and the season ended with a unworthy farewell to Maldini.

This again should have been a point where the re-building of the team ought to have begun. But instead Galliani and Berlusconi went for shortsighted solutions by bringing in Ronaldinho, Zambrotta and Sheva while loaning Beckham and Senderos. Only redeeming action was to sign Thiago Silva.

Then the cracks really began to show, as Ancelotti left, along with Kaká. Galliani convinced Leonardo to take the job as our manager instead of going out to find one with the experience and skills needed for such a position. This meant that we’d have a mediocre season, and we lost the man who found some of our biggest stars. Like putting a bandage on a broken bone, we brought in Huntelaar as our big signing that summer.

The new year saw us bring in a new coach in Allegri, and a slew of players, mostly unwanted by their own teams, in Boateng, Cassano, Van Bommel, Robinho and of course Ibrahimovic. Mostly due to Zlatan and our rival’s ineptitude we won the league. 

Again instead of signing young quality players needed to gradually replace the old guard of Nesta, Seedorf, Gattuso and Inzaghi and the likes, Galliani brought in a bulk of mediocre bit part players like Nocerino, Maxi Lopéz, Taiwo, Mesbah, Muntari and Aquilani. Only ray of sunshine was El Shaarawy.

This was followed by several years where the team would get gradually worse, as each of our stars left. We sought to replace Thiago Silva with Zapata and Zlatan with Pazzini. We hoped that Balotelli would magically become a sane person here. Short gab signings like Essien, Torres, Kaká, Menéz, Taarabt, Cerci and Matri were all added in the hope that some of them would work wonders here. 

All while Galliani was moaning about lacking funds, he seemingly never once realised that the funds were tied up in expensive long running contracts, that he for some reason kept renewing to a point were we had to pay other clubs to take our players. 

On top of that he brought in a spectacular list of WTF signings like Legrottaglie, Mesbah, Mancini, Onyewu, Traoré, Constant, Zaccardo, Silvestre and Brisa. Players that had no place anywhere near a team of Milan’s stature.

To top it off, he wasted our precious non-EU spots on players Grimi, Cardacio, Viúdez, Montelongo, Péle, Gabriel and Vergara. None of them were ever given a chance in the team, but they were kept on the books for several years. One has to wonder what players could have taken those spots if we had a proper scouting network.

To me the last 10 years with Galliani and Berlusconi were disastrous to the club. They failed to add any new players capable of carrying on the legacy of icons like Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Kaká, Seedorf, Sheva or Inzaghi. They brought in a lot of players with difficult personalities which eroded the core of the team, as there were no positive leaders left to steer the team in the right direction. They lost all the people responsible for finding our best players and relied entirely on collaborating with agents. They brought in one ill-fitted manager after the other, and let them go too soon because of impatience and negative influencers amongst the squad. To sum up, they left the club in a state that was almost as bad as when Berlusconi bought it. This goes back far beyond the past 5 years.

(09-21-2017, 02:21 AM)Nicolas Wrote: I disagree. Galliani and Berlusconi dropped the ball and wrecked the club by their actions following the CL triumph in ’07.

Instead of building upon the momentum, and slowly starting the process of rebuilding an already ageing squad, they simply went ahead and extended the expensive contracts of every member of the squad. The only significant additions to the team that summer was Emerson and Pato. On the other hand, we sold Borriello - only to buy him back at a €7M loss the year after.

As we all remember the following season we weren’t even able to qualify for Champions League again. The team was crumbling and falling apart, and the season ended with a unworthy farewell to Maldini.

This again should have been a point where the re-building of the team ought to have begun. But instead Galliani and Berlusconi went for shortsighted solutions by bringing in Ronaldinho, Zambrotta and Sheva while loaning Beckham and Senderos. Only redeeming action was to sign Thiago Silva.

Then the cracks really began to show, as Ancelotti left, along with Kaká. Galliani convinced Leonardo to take the job as our manager instead of going out to find one with the experience and skills needed for such a position. This meant that we’d have a mediocre season, and we lost the man who found some of our biggest stars. Like putting a bandage on a broken bone, we brought in Huntelaar as our big signing that summer.

The new year saw us bring in a new coach in Allegri, and a slew of players, mostly unwanted by their own teams, in Boateng, Cassano, Van Bommel, Robinho and of course Ibrahimovic. Mostly due to Zlatan and our rival’s ineptitude we won the league. 

Again instead of signing young quality players needed to gradually replace the old guard of Nesta, Seedorf, Gattuso and Inzaghi and the likes, Galliani brought in a bulk of mediocre bit part players like Nocerino, Maxi Lopéz, Taiwo, Mesbah, Muntari and Aquilani. Only ray of sunshine was El Shaarawy.

This was followed by several years where the team would get gradually worse, as each of our stars left. We sought to replace Thiago Silva with Zapata and Zlatan with Pazzini. We hoped that Balotelli would magically become a sane person here. Short gab signings like Essien, Torres, Kaká, Menéz, Taarabt, Cerci and Matri were all added in the hope that some of them would work wonders here. 

All while Galliani was moaning about lacking funds, he seemingly never once realised that the funds were tied up in expensive long running contracts, that he for some reason kept renewing to a point were we had to pay other clubs to take our players. 

On top of that he brought in a spectacular list of WTF signings like Legrottaglie, Mesbah, Mancini, Onyewu, Traoré, Constant, Zaccardo, Silvestre and Brisa. Players that had no place anywhere near a team of Milan’s stature.

To top it off, he wasted our precious non-EU spots on players Grimi, Cardacio, Viúdez, Montelongo, Péle, Gabriel and Vergara. None of them were ever given a chance in the team, but they were kept on the books for several years. One has to wonder what players could have taken those spots if we had a proper scouting network.

To me the last 10 years with Galliani and Berlusconi were disastrous to the club. They failed to add any new players capable of carrying on the legacy of icons like Maldini, Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Kaká, Seedorf, Sheva or Inzaghi. They brought in a lot of players with difficult personalities which eroded the core of the team, as there were no positive leaders left to steer the team in the right direction. They lost all the people responsible for finding our best players and relied entirely on collaborating with agents. They brought in one ill-fitted manager after the other, and let them go too soon because of impatience and negative influencers amongst the squad. To sum up, they left the club in a state that was almost as bad as when Berlusconi bought it. This goes back far beyond the past 5 years.

(09-21-2017, 05:11 PM)WCmilan Wrote: OK, but think about what the club would've been if Galliani & Berlusconi never took over. The club suffered as much as his personal life did in the last 10 years.

The market inflation kicked him out of investing. There was a time when 30mln euros would get you one of the best players in the world, in recent times it gets us Bacca. Realistically, he tried his best. I wouldn't go back to 2007, fine we had some rough years but after Calciopoli the entire Serie A suffered.

2011 we won the scudetto and he made a very strong squad for those few years. I'd say since then it's been rough, which is why I said 5 years. I barely consider competing for CL reaching quarters & finishing top 3 in Serie A is a failing club. Barcelona was an unbeatable club around that time when we had Ibra, and we just happened to get them in the CL everytime. They were making Madrid look like school boys. I think if we had not been eliminated by them that year we could've really gone the distance. After we sold Silva & Ibra, many questionable signings were made but those took place a lot more in the 5 years to follow 2012.

The summer we invested in Bacca/Berto etc. we spent that 100mln euros like water on 3-4 players who made no difference. Romagnoli will be a great player, but when your entire squad is falling apart you need a player with experience to make an immediate impact. Bertolacci was a flop, and Bacca was definitely not a preferred signing. We could've invested that money more wisely, but once that investment didn't work out at all, I think Berlusconi gave up for good.

It's unfair to criticise Boateng, Binho etc. after the fact. When he was scoring missiles and we were winning the scudetto I'm sure you were a fan of them. We also did attempt to sign some youth. El Shaarawy, Pato, Romagnoli. Also, don't forget that Donnarumma, Locatelli, Calabria, Cutrone are all the fruits of Berlu & Galliani. Instead of spending 80m on Donnarumma type youngster they decided to put the youth efforts into the Primavera, might've been too late but they did it and we're benefitting from it now. We talk as if it's easy to replace Maldini, generations like that require a lot. It's like saying once Messi & Iniesta retire that Barcelona will have an easy time replacing them. Look at the amount of effort they're putting into it buying all these players, I'm sure this is what you are suggesting we should've done, but look how terribly it's working. They're all flops and even though 80% of Barcelona's top players are still there, you can clearly see the gaps players like Xavi & Puyol left.

Once Messi, Iniesta, Pique, Busquets are gone even after investing billions in youth I guarantee they will not be the same. Those are generational eras, and many squads have seen them and they are always few and far apart. The odds off a player of Messi's caliber falling into the hands of Barcelona 10 years from now are extremely slim. Same situation with finding players to replace Maldini. I'm sure the 40+mln euros Barca spent on Andre Gomes to replace Xavi looked like a good idea, but look how that turned out.

My main point is, it's near impossible to recreate squads like that. From 2012 onwards its fair to criticise, before that it's completely unfair to both of them. 2011&2012 we were dominant favourites in Italy despite losing out to Juventus in 12/13 by very little. Ronaldinho, Ibrahimovic, Robinho, Pato, Cassano... The intentions were there, what clubs had such big names? Worthwhile investments were made, and many of our youth we relied on didn't work out. Pato was made of glass, EL Sha had a complete 360, Balotelli was just Balotelli and that's that. I think there were so many factors that were out of Berlu & Galliani's control.