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RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Gabriel426 - 05-26-2011
Ca, instead of having a healthy discussion, you are insulting my football intelligence. I thought you can get ban for that?
Slowdorf might be a great player back in the days but he certainly not one now. As if he as good as all the players you quoted hpsaid, then teams would be dying to try to sign him for free. I did not see, JM do it, despite what you wrote JM thinks he is highly intelligent. I don't see Wenger try signing him, despite what you wrote, he thinks he is one of the best. If all se coaches think he is great, how come I don't see Barcelona, ManU, Bayern, or Napoli, Inter, Roma offering him a contract when he is free. All I ever heard was some Brazilian clubs.
Pato has not done well in CL, Van Persie has not done well in CL, then there is Klose who is a great National Striker but he has not done well in CL, Battigol another great striker had done nothing in CL, Crespo got a bad record beside the year he was in Milan. Point is that I really don't think Ibra has had a good team to play for most part and when he has, he usually average 1 goal per 2 games,which is pretty good.
One more thing, Ca, I think you should watch more football matches to prove your point as you just kept using the handful of games as example. On top of that, Ibra moves more than Slowdorf in any game, thus to state that Ibra is lazy and should be sold while Slowdorf should start due to his creativity is okay as long as players around him are workers who runs for him...Get the facts and your points straight instead of letting your hatred toward a player who ticks you off the wrong way blinds you.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Ca Rossonero - 05-26-2011
Apologies for the dig, gabriel. Unnecessary on my part.
I will point out 2 things about Seedorf v. IBra movement. IBra is a striker, a position you should movre a lot more than a midfield playmaker. Seedorf in CM is always available for the ball, controls it and moves it forward... that' what he should od. Naturally these players always 'look' like they r moving less they are not. Likr I said, i do not like Seedorf at CAM, because he lacks fitness to move enough for that position. But in CM, when he's got VBommel and another worker, it works well
Zlatan isn't lazy. Don't mistake that. But he does want the ball and wants time on it, which is not good in ucl. He has problem playing consistent one touch football unlike say sheva/kaka...robinho/pato/cassano etc.
I never said Ibra is bad, but he's VERY replaceable. We are not 'ibra dependent'. Finishing season without him, shows that. As soon as Robinho became comfortable in serie A, we didn't miss a beat. But I do think he's too static for UCL. He made barca more static, he makes milan static, he made inter static. If I had option between ibra/Pato or a CAM and pato.... i'd rather have CAM. I don't think IBra is capable of playing w/ a true CAM, because he wants ball too much.
But how about a peice of advice. Instead of just claiming i have 'blind hatred' and kind of provoking me, consider my points. I laid out some real tactical problems ibra imposes. Stuff he's done his whole career which is why he's always fallen short in UCL. Stuff he has capability to over come, but at the age of 30... do you really expect big change?
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Gabriel426 - 05-26-2011
Accepted.
Understand your point, but for me, I think movement from Striker and Midfielder are different.
In midfield, ESP., in CM, you need a lot of movement due to both offensive and defensive duties. That's why myself and others think Slowdorf should not play anymore, esp next year, when you have someone like Taiwo, who will be bombing down the left flank all the time. As it will leave the left side expose. No matter who the CBs and DM are. That's why, it will probably be best, if Milan sign another Box to box mid like Boateng and a CAM like Hernanes, Honda or Hamsik. Either way, to me, the midfielders of any team should be the one running the most as they are the links between attack and defense. Something that both you and I seems to be disagree on.
As for movement of striker, well it really depends on the type of striker himself. Pippo, Raul, and RVN are those who hangs around the box all day long. Then there are the Sheva type, who likes to come out and receive pass, then use their speed and skill to move pass defender and create one on one wi GK. Then there the Bobo and Drogba type, who just crashes everything in site. Ibra is quite unique that, he is actually more #10 than #9. But due to his
size, skill and ability to hold on to the ball, he is play often as someone like Drogba and BoBo. You are right that he does not like playing with a true CAM as he needs the ball, but he does make passes as good as anyone in the world, his assists speaks for himself. that's also lies the problem, the whole team tends to wait for him to see what he can do. It happened at Juve, Inter, and Milan.
It did not happen much in Barca due to Messi and Iniesta. To be honest, he did not make Barcelona static as he never jelled with that team. Barcelona did destroyed anyone and everyone along the way to the semis last year, which they lost to Inter. Ibra did not score but so were Messi and company.
Personally, if I have a choice, I would rather start Ibra with Cassano and or Robnho over Ibra and Pato. As talented as Pato is, he is someone who is suited more for a counter attacking style team than the
current Milan. Yes, he did great in the Inter game, but Milan was playing counter attack that game bc Inter was pouring forward after the 1st minute goal.
As for CL, like I said, he never really played on a team which can serious challenge CL. Juve was always good at Serie A but crap at CL, and at that time Trez was the main striker and Ibra played more as a SS.
During his time in Inter, everybody knew they needed more creativity, as a midfield of Stankovic, Munati and Cambasico really can't win in CL. And if it were not for Berlu not spending and being cheap, I really can't see how Inter won those titles in a row.
Even this Milan team ain't that good, evidence Is that not a lot of us think the team can go far even after the signings of Ibra and Robinho, as pretty much evyone knew the team will be lucky to make it to the quarter finals. I think most people just got piss that, we lost to the Spurs.
As for the tactical problems you stated, it really depends how Max plays the team. If Ibra is the focus,he really needs mobile midfielders and a fox in the box next to him. If Pato is the attacking focus, then the team will need someone like Robben to play with him and Robinho. Can Pato and Ibra co exist and be effective? Only if Pato learn to make his run better off players, that is someone he is still learning.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Ca Rossonero - 05-26-2011
You have some good points. Just let me address the clarence point. I don't want to see a 3 man midfield w/ no passer. Imo milan must have someone who is a ball player there, you have a pure DM and a jack of all trades style CM. And to me, unless we get Modric, Fabregas etc. we are lacking this and clarence can still do it. I wish we kept pirlo but we did not. I think all the problems stemmed from lack of balance, not lack of ability. For a period we played way too many ball players and really lacked just pure workers like Boateng. In 09/10 we had ronaldinho (who WAS lazy), pirlo, seedorf with ambrosini trying to cover all. No balance.
When allegri worked it out w/ the 4-3-1-2 i though we looked a lot more balanced w/ movement more reminiscent of pre-2007 levels. To me it always looked more like am xmas tree anyway
---------------CF
------Robinho--Boateng
Seedorf--Van Bommel--Gattuso
Robi dropped to take the ball alot. Boateng ran everywhere. Seedorf was mean creative outlet in midfield and he had cover around him and movement infront of him.
I would love to see Seedorf replaced w/ a younger better version of this player but they are hard to find. Only two i can think of who might be available are Fabregas and Modric. Neither are cheap. For me Hamsik is still more of the CAM in allegri's plans. He's makes intelligent runs/has good technique and knows where to be. But I am not sure he's best use in CM because he's too far from box on occasion. It's a shame Madrid locked up Sahin cause he was cheap and perfect LCM for us.
---
As for forwards. I do think Pato can be fox in the box. He's best at it. I think he's generally ineffective when he's trying to be a fantasista. But his finishing is world class. If he could stay healthy he'd have 25+ goals (a la cavani/di natale/etoo). Perhaps if our plans are to play ibra/pato the best option is to find some sort of 4-4-2 look? A player like Bale at LM, use boateng at RM (not a winger, but he works hard and puts in some crosses, besides the 2 winger 4-4-2 doesn't work but unbalanced one does). Find a true ball player who can play a 2 man to put next to van bommel. Maybe that works? Hamsik works in hole of a 4-3-1-2 also w/ zlatan, but i still don't like it in ucl. Of course we'd need to address the CM who plays the ball forward, and still i think it's hard to top clarence without HEAVY spending
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - GeoTav - 05-26-2011
I don't know if it was mentionned, but with the players leaving (Janku, Pirlo) and the players renewed at a lower wage, our budget for mercato is higher than before ... That means we have some more money to spend compared to the last few years.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Gio-mania - 05-26-2011
Does anybody know how much we're paying Seedorf, Ambrosini, Nesta, Pippo and vBommel from now on?
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - reza - 05-26-2011
Source from another forum
Nesta - €3 million. €1.5 million pay cut.
Inzaghi - €800.000. €1.2 million pay cut.
Van Bommel - €1.2 million. Wages unaffected.
Roma - €400.000. Wages unaffected.
Thiago Silva - €4.5 million per year until 2016. €2 million increase in wages.
Ambrosini - €2 million. €1 million pay cut.
Seedorf - €2 million. €2 million pay cut.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - Gio-mania - 05-26-2011
Thanks reza.
Actually these wages seem quite decent, especially Seedorf considering the pay cut he took.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - reza - 05-26-2011
Assuming those are accurate then yes. Mexes is being paid lots though (4 million?) Pirlo was 6 million. Taiwo I am not sure.
RE: Summer Mercato 2011 - ACMILAN BEST - 05-26-2011
What do you think about this?
Pato
Robinho Lucas
? ? ?