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RE: Summer mercato 2012 - reza - 05-26-2012
It is not so much 'he is Milan' but it's that he has saved us and you can't just say that if we had Cavani (or even someone better) it would be the same (number of goals scored last season, etc.)
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - LebRN - 05-26-2012
(05-26-2012, 01:58 PM)Stitch Wrote: its ridiculous to think we would be anywhere close to this level if we replaced ibra with cavani. like him or not, that is the truth.
dont let personal dislike clouds your objective view.
I shared my opinion many times already why I believe Cavani is better for the team than Ibra and thankfully other posters also have, like ACMILAN1983's post above as well, but obviously it's "ridiculous" to try to explain that to some of the more "perceptive" posters on here.
(05-26-2012, 03:09 PM)reza Wrote: It is not so much 'he is Milan' but it's that he has saved us and you can't just say that if we had Cavani (or even someone better) it would be the same (number of goals scored last season, etc.)
Reza, nobody is saying that Cavani would have definitely scored the same number of goals as Ibra; he might or he might not. The argument is: would Cavani be a better player for Milan than Ibra?
Some of us say he would, others apparently think there is no way and we should "get this through our heads", consider it "laughable" & "ridiculous"....can't argue much with that in depth reasoning....
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - reza - 05-26-2012
I understand what you mean.
I am not exactly a big Ibra fan but in my opinion you don't get rid of a player coming off a season like that, because the best chance of replicating it is the same player himself. Unless there are 'external' reasons, for example big time disciplinary stuff or something similar.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Revolver - 05-26-2012
(05-26-2012, 11:20 AM)LebRN Wrote: What's laughable is ignorants saying crap like "Ibra is Milan"
I'm sorry if someone got offended but to say that in THIS Milan Cavani would be better than Ibra is simply laughable.
Whatever one may think, I've been watching Cavani since his Palermo days, and he's a simple poacher with great work-rate. In 99% of cases, you need to give him the ball to score. He can't dribble, he can't pass, he can't create for himself. Gilardino was a better poacher than him while in Parma in all aspects, he only lacked Cavani's work-rate, and we all know how good he was at Milan, and he had a brilliant strings of midfielders to work with.
I agree that Cavani is a great striker, he would fit greatly with Ibra, but to say we would be better with him and without Ibra... just don't please.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Stitch - 05-26-2012
exactly my thoughts.
dont forget cavani has hamsik and lavezzi to supply him with balls. no one on that level is in milan, except maybe cassano.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - LebRN - 05-26-2012
If we can get Cavani to play with Ibra i don't think anybody would say no to that.
But when you have Cassano, Robinho, & SES who are all supporting strikers and with Ibra obviously liking to play as a supporting striker & not a poacher, then we are desperately missing that striker who can finish it off that is why I am arguing that he is better for the team.
You can also sell Robinho or Cassano or even SES, but the most you will get would probably be Robinho for 20Mio as being reported from Malaga (if we are lucky) and then you will have to pay Cavani's salary along with Ibra so that whole idea will not work. That is why the only guy to sacrifice is Ibra.
Now the other option is not to make any changes and stick with what we have...maybe that would get us better results for next year, but the year after, we will have an Ibra at 32-33(?) with a huge salary that noone wants to buy and we need to buy a replacement and we have 0 money....what then? he becomes one of our new generation of senatoris?
Selling Ibra now and getting a good replacement is the correct decision for the team & I believe Cavani is the most suitable replacement....that is my opinion....enough about Ibra
(05-26-2012, 09:45 AM)LebRN Wrote:(05-26-2012, 06:48 AM)WCmilan Wrote: .... i think nocerino can play gattusos role, where boateng will do well as an energetic midfielder then an anchor is what we really need..
Just like the Ibra-leader-we would-be-nothing-without-him crap theory, this is another one...
Nocerino is NOT Gattuso's natural replacement! And he does not have to be! Gattuso was a a phenomenon in his own way... I'm just saying that people should stop comparing them as if they were similar.
I'm not saying he's not good, the guy has scored 10(?) goals, has 3 lungs (like someone said before), & gives his heart and soul on the pitch...but please do not compare him to Gattuso. His work rate & commitment probably, his defensive skills not in a million years....his forward running and goal scoring, Gattuso can only dream of. So even if they play the same position, this does not make them comparable. They are 2 very different players.
....and there you go:
http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=81441
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Gabriel426 - 05-26-2012
As much as I am an Ibra supporter, I really would not say he is Milan. Heck, I won't even call Baresi or Maldini Milan as they are only players. QThe only person I would call he is Milan is Berlu, as he is truly Milan, since his decisions are the bible for Milan.
Now, I stated it a few days ago, that to me,I still have a little doubt about Cavani due to the support he gets from the whole Napoli, Hamsik, Zuniga, Gargarno, Leveassi, Inler and Maggio.
IMO, I don't think Cavani can do what Ibra did this past yr with the same Milan team. I had this whole debate with Dev not long ago about Ibra dependent and I really don't want to get into that again. The thing is, Nocerino, Boateng, Gattuso(last season), even Muntari all surprised us with their performances in Milan and I think Ibra had a hand in that. Not to mention Pippo best game these past two yrs was playing with Ibra. I am not going to judge Robinho bc this past yr he was just crap while last yr he did well with and without Ibra. Slowdorf is Slowdorf depending on his period. As the only person who seemed to suffer is Pato, but I think it has more to do with his style of play and his injuries than anything.
I think a point I want to make is Ibra wages is not a problem for Milan bc his stats and performances proves that he is worth the money. The thing is, and I agree with Dev on this, Milan struggles when Ibra plays bad, but the question should be how come the other players do not step up. Then again, maybe they did but they are really not good enough. Nocerino, Muntari, MVB, And Ambro wont suddenly become, Xavi, Cesc, Iniesta and Tiago bc Ibra is not on the pitch, Abate wont become Cafu, Slowdorf won't start running, Aqua is not going to turn into the player all Italians hope for when he first played for Roma and injured players ain't going to heal themselves.
To me there are pros and cons of selling Ibra and I agree on both sides, no matter it is bc he is not getting younger and time to cash in to get a younger version of him or holding on to him as there is just not another player to perform like him......but the problem with Milan is not Ibra, rather it is the quality of the midfield and avoiding another injury massacre. I really doubt any top striker could have a good year with the current Milan midfield and the high possiblity of injuries to players.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - WCmilan - 05-26-2012
I wasn't trying to offend your post before or anything like that gabriel, and Im also not disagreeing with you in terms of ibra being a great player (even if i hate him as a person), i just simply see that it would be smarter for next season and the future if we looked at our attacking trident as a whole..
Meaning, if we sold ibra and robinho(i love robinho btw, and i still want him sold) we could look into a striker LIKE cavani, if its not him, someone very versatile who can be a poacher.. It's just sad to see that ibra is our more creative force in the attack when cassanos out, where given if cassano stays fit next season we may or may not need to go into the market for this but i think that a pure cam, i mean a natural cam like ozil or sneijder or like kaka when he was with us..
We invested a lot into big forwards but I think our main aim of investement should be a proper cam. someone with speed, someone who can counter attack someone who can save the work for our forwards of providing assists and through balls and so on.. Right now, in terms of possibility I'd go for pastore, not doing good in PSG, i can argue he doesn't like being there in the first place, and hes very young so once hes in his late 20's, he'll already have provided 5 years of service + we could sell him for the same money maybe more maybe a bit less, at least he wont be worth 0.
The big goal of this mercato should be a pure cam like the players i mentioned^ after that, i'd be fine with our strikers but there are cheaper options that would make the attack work even better, simple players like pippo who just have an eye for goal , modern day i dont think we'll ever find a player like pippo but there are players like cavani and matri who are great at scoring but aren't exactly the definition of a poacher because it's not their main focus, these days i think speed,athletiscm and being more technical and having a good work rate are an important part of allegris plan for us
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - Gabriel426 - 05-26-2012
No worries, it is just healthy discussions, I was not offended at all.
I agree with pretty much what you said and pretty much what I had been saying, Milan needs better quality in midfield and keeping players healthy. Until they can solve those two things, even Messi or CR7 as striker won't help Milan win anything.
Last week in HK, there was this Soccer 7 tournament took place at my sports club, where teams send their youth squads or veterans to play. I happened to ran into Richard Witschge(played with the Dutch Trio back then) and Sheringham at the bar the day after Chelsea won the CL. As I was wearing my Milan jersey and having a drink, I notice Witschge and started a conversation with him(i dont think anyone knew he played with the Dutch trio beside me) along with his other friends and Teddy. (Time like those are time I wished I have an iPhone.). Anyway, I asked them about current football....and Ofcourse we talked about Milan(mainly the amount of injuries and the farewell). They pretty much think players today despite more talented are not as tough as they were, and blame the managers/clubs for pampering too much. One interesting thing mentioned from one of their friends was the Bosman rule gave too much power to the players bc it made the club vulnerable. Surprisingly, Witschge and Teddy did not disagree.
I was just watching a review of Serie A, and there SS this part on Destro. He pretty much said, he looks up to Ibra and admire Silva as the best defender in the world. In the mind of a Milan fan, I am ready to play for Milan as long as you pay Siena.
RE: Summer mercato 2012 - k7r - 05-26-2012
yesterdays friendlies:
brazil - pato didnt play, oscar (CAM whom we were ineterested in) had a super game, hulk too.....i would like these two on board at milan instead of ibra/robinho
holland - strootman didnt start, van bommel did, this suggests that strootman may not get the nod ahead of Van bommel for the euros, so now worries about his price increasing, i guess...