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+--- Thread: Winter mercato January 2015 (/showthread.php?tid=759)
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RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - Jokka - 09-25-2014
So we sold Cristante so we can develop Van Ginkel for Chelsea free. Now Van Ginkel's out for a month with ligament damage after coming back from season ending ACL injury last year! Yet another master stroke by the bald genius. Not forgetting how he embarassed Milan by begging Van Ginkel repeatedly to join and getting De Jong/Torres to call him round the clock. So with Monty/Van Ginkel injured and Cristante gone we have ZERO creative mids
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - ACMILAN1983 - 09-25-2014
Jokka, do you actually support Milan? I ask this earnestly, as your comments and posts generally seem fueled by anger towards the current state of the club. I can relate to this, as the state of the club is extremely disheartening, as I've said before. Personally, I don't support Galliani and Berlusconi and want them out, but I can't help but hope better fortunes for the club and I wish Pippo and the players (at least those who behave correctly) well.
About DES, his performances haven't been good, but it's bizarre to me that he's even in question. It's clear that he's struggled a little this season, but he's also not at the heart of our problems. I'm not going into detail about why I don't think he's particularly at fault, but if you look at my comments post Parma you can see why I don't consider him the problem, rather his performances are the product of the situation around him. That said, I still have little doubt that he's a pretty great player in the making. Technical and physical qualities aside, one thing people often don't comment enough on is his positional sense/awareness, which is often exceptional, almost textbook. I think he needs a little patience, as once Inzaghi sorts out the side's defending in general, DES will improve.
About SES, he's been ok, given he's faced injury that will impact his performances. He's still got bags of potential and has shown that he can grow. As with DES, he just needs a little patience, as after all we're talking about a couple of 21 year olds who have shown great ability so far.
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - nefremo - 09-25-2014
Jokka..even if Menez or Honda or Muntari had great games against Lazio, SES was still one of the top performers in that game. So he had one great game like I said and one bad one (he only played in two out of the four), and that is bad for you.
But again, just like with everything else.....SES plays good against Lazio = Lazio is terrible so it doesn't count. You will always find something to add to to make yourself right. Your opinion is gold.
Take care man...there is no point debating with you!
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - Jokka - 09-25-2014
(09-25-2014, 12:07 PM)nefremo Wrote: Jokka..even if Menez or Honda or Muntari had great games against Lazio, SES was still one of the top performers in that game. So he had one great game like I said and one bad one (he only played in two out of the four), and that is bad for you.
But again, just like with everything else.....SES plays good against Lazio = Lazio is terrible so it doesn't count. You will always find something to add to to make yourself right. Your opinion is gold.
Take care man...there is no point debating with you!
Lol so you saying SES played badly vs. "a strong Juventus when the entire team was shit" isn't "finding something to add to make yourself right"?
Seriously, you cannot be debated with because 1) you're not very intelligent 2) you can't accept being mostly wrong (because of point 1).
Not once have you convinced me a) Niang isn't trash b) Coman doesn't have great potential based on the strength of your arguments. In fact you've done a U-turn both times and ended up agreeing with me! But thanks for making me laugh nevertheless
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - Jay Crisp - 09-25-2014
(09-25-2014, 10:37 AM)Jokka Wrote: So we sold Cristante so we can develop Van Ginkel for Chelsea free. Now Van Ginkel's out for a month with ligament damage after coming back from season ending ACL injury last year! Yet another master stroke by the bald genius. Not forgetting how he embarassed Milan by begging Van Ginkel repeatedly to join and getting De Jong/Torres to call him round the clock. So with Monty/Van Ginkel injured and Cristante gone we have ZERO creative mids
Thats not true.Cristante wanted a guarantee hed play more , no player in any team should be guaranteed a spot.He didnt want to stay and fight for game time and requested a transfer.
VanGinkel wasnt brought in as a Cristante replacement nor was he bought for us to develope him.He was very for 3 seasons at Vitesse but wont get near Chelseas 11...the hope without it being said is for him to come do well and want to stay.His injury is unfortunate.Cristante wasnt forced out the door he opted to leave asked for a transfer.
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - ACMILAN1983 - 09-25-2014
(09-25-2014, 12:59 PM)Jokka Wrote: Lol so you saying SES played badly vs. "a strong Juventus when the entire team was shit" isn't "finding something to add to make yourself right"?
Seriously, you cannot be debated with because 1) you're not very intelligent 2) you can't accept being mostly wrong (because of point 1).
Not once have you convinced me a) Niang isn't trash b) Coman doesn't have great potential based on the strength of your arguments. In fact you've done a U-turn both times and ended up agreeing with me! But thanks for making me laugh nevertheless
Learn the forum rules please. No personal attacks are allowed and saying nefremo isn't intelligent (quite honestly years of his posts confirm he's very well informed when it comes to football) is very much an attack.
I would appreciate an answer to my question, it was a genuine question that I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering. Do you honestly support Milan?
Finally, your last paragraph shows you've rather comically completely missed the point of what nefremo was arguing when posting about Niang and Coman. As for his "U-Turns", I'm sure a person as intelligent as yourself should surely be able to read into the sarcasm of someone not very intelligent, as you put it.
Watching this whole scenario play out feels like watching a clown laughing at someone else not realising he's the butt of the jokes.
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - Jokka - 09-25-2014
(09-25-2014, 01:08 PM)Jay Crisp Wrote:(09-25-2014, 10:37 AM)Jokka Wrote: So we sold Cristante so we can develop Van Ginkel for Chelsea free. Now Van Ginkel's out for a month with ligament damage after coming back from season ending ACL injury last year! Yet another master stroke by the bald genius. Not forgetting how he embarassed Milan by begging Van Ginkel repeatedly to join and getting De Jong/Torres to call him round the clock. So with Monty/Van Ginkel injured and Cristante gone we have ZERO creative mids
Thats not true.Cristante wanted a guarantee hed play more , no player in any team should be guaranteed a spot.He didnt want to stay and fight for game time and requested a transfer.
VanGinkel wasnt brought in as a Cristante replacement nor was he bought for us to develope him.He was very for 3 seasons at Vitesse but wont get near Chelseas 11...the hope without it being said is for him to come do well and want to stay.His injury is unfortunate.Cristante wasnt forced out the door he opted to leave asked for a transfer.
Not true. Cristante was promoted to first team 2 years ago with the promise of regular playing time. Last January Galliani even said Cristante would play against Atletico in the CL. He then went ahead and signed Essien instead. Once Seedorf replaced Allegri Cristante virtually received no playing time.
Cristante was then led to believe he'd receive more playing time this season because Pippo was boss. Instead, Galliani failed to offload fodders Muntari/Essien then signs Van Ginkel. Cristante isn't stupid he can read between the lines. He had enough of Galliani's lies and realized his career would stall if he stayed here. Galliani's words promised one thing but actions showed the opposite causing Cristante to leave.
Also Van Ginkel arrived with no purchase option. So how can you say he isn't here to be developed?! The player said so as much himself.
(09-25-2014, 01:22 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: Learn the forum rules please. No personal attacks are allowed and saying nefremo isn't intelligent (quite honestly years of his posts confirm he's very well informed when it comes to football) is very much an attack.
I would appreciate an answer to my question, it was a genuine question that I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering. Do you honestly support Milan?
Finally, your last paragraph shows you've rather comically completely missed the point of what nefremo was arguing when posting about Niang and Coman. As for his "U-Turns", I'm sure a person as intelligent as yourself should surely be able to read into the sarcasm of someone not very intelligent, as you put it.
Watching this whole scenario play out feels like watching a clown laughing at someone else not realising he's the butt of the jokes.
Lol nice try buddy. I'm assuming by your comments you didn't read the thread properly? His U-turns weren't sarcastic it all. They went along the lines of "Coman probably will become a great player like Mastour" and "I'm not saying Niang is great, he could well end up being fodder". He was just annoyed I catergorically stated Niang is fodder and stand by it.
PS on one hand you're telling me to "respect forum rules" and another calling me a clown?! Nice contradiction there buddy
Think maybe you need to re-read the forum rules
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - nefremo - 09-25-2014
(09-18-2014, 01:22 PM)Jokka Wrote: Lol so you saying SES played badly vs. "a strong Juventus when the entire team was shit" isn't "finding something to add to make yourself right"?
Seriously, you cannot be debated with because 1) you're not very intelligent 2) you can't accept being mostly wrong (because of point 1).
Not once have you convinced me a) Niang isn't trash b) Coman doesn't have great potential based on the strength of your arguments. In fact you've done a U-turn both times and ended up agreeing with me! But thanks for making me laugh nevertheless
It's funny that your intelligent self didn't pick up on the fact that I wasn't really agreeing with you. Others in the forum did.
I don't get mad when I'm called unintelligent on the Internet. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I've been called that in 14 years on this forum. I guess there is a first time for everything.
About the "u-turns" you speak of...all I said is that you might be right and might have a point. But the entire point I was trying to make was that you can't be SOOO sure about it. I said we'll see how it pans out and then gave example of both sides. Ones that are in line with your opinion and ones that aren't. In the end, it just wasn't going to go anywhere and I left it alone saying that you are right.
Regardless, you're now ridiculing another member who is probably the most respected one here altogether by saying he didn't read properly.
Have a good day Jokka, let's move on.
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - Jay Crisp - 09-25-2014
(09-25-2014, 01:31 PM)Jokka Wrote: Not true. Cristante was promoted to first team 2 years ago with the promise of regular playing time. Last January Galliani even said Cristante would play against Atletico in the CL. He then went ahead and signed Essien instead. Once Seedorf replaced Allegri Cristante virtually received no playing time.
Cristante was then led to believe he'd receive more playing time this season because Pippo was boss. Instead, Galliani failed to offload fodders Muntari/Essien then signs Van Ginkel. Cristante isn't stupid he can read between the lines. He had enough of Galliani's lies and realized his career would stall if he stayed here. Galliani's words promised one thing but actions showed the opposite causing Cristante to leave.
Also Van Ginkel arrived with no purchase option. So how can you say he isn't here to be developed?! The player said so as much himself.
A 19 year old that demands game time & requests a transfer when he doesnt get it isnt the kind of player I want...WHY ALWAYS CRSTANTE.He should train & prove his worth like every other player he didnt want to or didnt have enough belief in himself.Gallianis words you say , what words ? Where did he say Cristsnte will play ? He said hed get promoted and get the opportunity to play...you keep saying Galliani said this said that ..Galliani doesnt choose who plays and spews so much B.S no one takes any notice , well almost no one.Cristante was injured by the Atletico game.
VanGinkel well "lets read between the lines" as ypu put it.Because of a delusional owner & a disgusting CEO we have no money , wanted to sign VanGinkel so approached for a loan but he wasnt keen he wanted to stay and fight unlike Cristante.Then he was told it would be best to leave he did.With Milan hoping he'll like it and press for a permanent move.
Im not that keen hes good but too injury prone.
RE: Winter mercato January 2015 - Jokka - 09-25-2014
(09-25-2014, 01:42 PM)nefremo Wrote: About the "u-turns" you speak of...all I said is that you might be right and might have a point. But the entire point I was trying to make was that you can't be SOOO sure about it. I said we'll see how it pans out and then gave example of both sides. Ones that are in line with your opinion and ones that aren't. In the end, it just wasn't going to go anywhere and I left it alone saying that you are right.
Funnily enough I just said exactly the same thing "His U-turns weren't sarcastic it all. They went along the lines of "Coman probably will become a great player like Mastour" and "I'm not saying Niang is great, he could well end up being fodder". He was just annoyed I catergorically stated Niang is fodder and stand by it."
You were frustrated because despite agreeing with my opinion, I didn't agree with yours. Therefore, you responded in a childish way with ridicule "yes Jokka you're always right!". Obviously I understood this and responded equally sarcastically "Thanks!" "Yes I'm ALWAYS right!". I guess you missed that part too?
(09-25-2014, 01:51 PM)Jay Crisp Wrote: A 19 year old that demands game time & requests a transfer when he doesnt get it isnt the kind of player I want...WHY ALWAYS CRSTANTE.He should train & prove his worth like every other player he didnt want to or didnt have enough belief in himself.Gallianis words you say , what words ? Where did he say Cristsnte will play ? He said hed get promoted and get the opportunity to play...you keep saying Galliani said this said that ..Galliani doesnt choose who plays and spews so much B.S no one takes any notice , well almost no one.Cristante was injured by the Atletico game.
VanGinkel well "lets read between the lines" as ypu put it.Because of a delusional owner & a disgusting CEO we have no money , wanted to sign VanGinkel so approached for a loan but he wasnt keen he wanted to stay and fight unlike Cristante.Then he was told it would be best to leave he did.With Milan hoping he'll like it and press for a permanent move.
Im not that keen hes good but too injury prone.
Cristante didn't demand game time he just wanted a fair shot. He felt disrespected Galliani lied to him about playing time for the second reason running. It was this lack of faith from Management which ultimately sealed his fate. As for 'Galliani's words' read the link below.
Re Van Ginkel, the facts completely contradict your opinion.
1) Van Ginkel's made clear he doesn't want to play for Milan long term.
2) There's no buyout option in the deal.
3) Chelsea paid 10m for Van Ginkel. When was the last time we paid this for a mid?
http://www.football-italia.net/43496/galliani-cristante-staying-here