+- AC Milan Forums - Unofficial (https://www.milanmania.com/forum)
+-- Forum: AC MILAN (https://www.milanmania.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Forum: Discussions (https://www.milanmania.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread (/showthread.php?tid=303)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - Jay Crisp - 12-12-2016
(12-12-2016, 08:27 PM)nefremo Wrote: Ok, Jay. I understand the concerns you have. They are legit. I am concerned as well.
But what do you suggest is going on? What do you think the problem is? Who is to blame?
And if you are saying that all of these delays are due to this new group's "incompetence" as you said in your post, or that they may not have enough money to even collect 100mil among all the investors.......so than you have to see how it comes across that you would rather not have this deal go through! You surely don't want the club to be sold to new incompetent owners and ones that can't come up with the money, right?
I don't think there is anything wrong with not wanting the club to be sold to this group if you believe that these delays are in fact their own fault. (incompetence and money issues)
But I do get confused as to where you stand though as you suggest that Fininvest (Berlu) just want to get the club sold and they are putting up with this because the high valuation they were given anyway and the fact that there are no other buyers! (I agree with this).....but than you also suggest that the consortium is incompetent, can't get this done, and doesn't have enough money to begin with! (I'm not saying I don't agree with this as I don't know if it's true.......but I will give this the benefit of the doubt for another couple of months...especially if this 100mil does come in tomorrow)
The point is that you criticize Fininvest for even doing business with these people at this point...than you criticize the consortium for being incompetent and unable to come up with the money.......than you turn around and say that you still want the deal done? Why? If I was you and I had the doubts that you are having, I would rather the deal not get done. At least, with Berlu we know what we get, and also, eventually, we will get sold. If not to these people than to some others.
Where we differ is, like I said already, even though I have some doubts, I am willing to give the investors the benefit of the doubt for another couple of months...especially if they pay another 100mil. We'll know tomorrow I guess!
Im only pointing whats happening and what I think the issue is.If they are indeed having money issues it doesnt mean they cant run the club on the money available a hell of a lot better than it is run.I under no circumstances want the current regime to stay.You see where Milan are with these idiots , and when you see in the last 3 years alone theyve spent close to a billion to finish 8th 10th and 7th its disgusting.In this situation Id prefer the Chinese to actually buy the club even if it meant they had €0 to put in after buying the club besides the clubs revenue IF tbey were able to run it properly and well.€200m is a hell of a lot of money to be wasting year in year out.If run properly they could make a success out of it.With UCL perhaps ad on anywhere from €50-€70m to the €200m.Im annoyed at the circus thats surrounding this deal, and I dont think it will get done.I think we'll pass this mercato then they'll fade away and we'll see new "supposed" buyers by April or May.
With each passing year Milans value decreases and its debt rises.Fininvest defintely want the albatros off its back , I do think it will happen but I think will end up going for around the €250-€300m mark like Inter.You can give them the benefit all you want.But ageeing a fee in August and to pass October 2 November a December a proposed January a definite February now its a March daye is worrying.Its not simple technical or bureaucratic issues holding this up.Its a lot more than that and we'll prob/definitely never know.
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - Ryo - 12-13-2016
Well considering that you expect their valuation to drop so drastically, once the Chinese pay up their second deposit, we're only €50-€100M short of your mark. Does it mean the Chinese are already ready to fulfill your requirements?
The way I see it, once the Chinese buy up the club, then moving money between China and Italy won't be an issue because it will be moving cash to fund the Chinese's own operations. In that instance the money moving into Italy will be considered investment funds for their OWN operations, and hence not stuck with so much red tape.
You may think the Chinese have no money or management skills, but that's probably not the case. Just because the bank screwed up doesn't mean the investors are responsible. If that were the case, then the deal would've been called off a long time ago.
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - Jay Crisp - 12-13-2016
(12-13-2016, 12:13 AM)Ryo Wrote: Well considering that you expect their valuation to drop so drastically, once the Chinese pay up their second deposit, we're only €50-€100M short of your mark. Does it mean the Chinese are already ready to fulfill your requirements?
The way I see it, once the Chinese buy up the club, then moving money between China and Italy won't be an issue because it will be moving cash to fund the Chinese's own operations. In that instance the money moving into Italy will be considered investment funds for their OWN operations, and hence not stuck with so much red tape.
You may think the Chinese have no money or management skills, but that's probably not the case. Just because the bank screwed up doesn't mean the investors are responsible. If that were the case, then the deal would've been called off a long time ago.
Oh so you know the bank screwed up , how so ?.I dont expect the valuation to drop IF the Chinese buy which I have major doubts about.Its going no different the Beevsaga except this time we have supposed deposits which we'll never know.I expect the value to drop if the club isnt sold and they keep finishing outside top 3 and running up €60-€90m debt each year like the club has been.You took that the wrong way , we'll see tomorrow morning if the money has been paid or theres more issues.We'll also see come March when that deadline is passed.I expect a new date for the closing to be announced last week of January or first week of February.
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - Jay Crisp - 12-13-2016
THE SECOND INSTALLMENT OF €100M HAS ARRIVED FROM THE CHINESE GAZZETTA DELLA SPORT
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - Rimini - 12-13-2016
l will only believe in sale when l see world class players with Milan shirt.
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - Ryo - 12-13-2016
After dealing with Chinese banks for the last three years for my company.... yeah, it's sometimes obvious when they screwing things up.
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - ACMILAN1983 - 12-13-2016
posted this in the management thread by mistake...
It seems the 100m deposit has been paid, an official statement has been made by SES (Sino Europe, not El Shaarawy
) and one is expected from Finninvest later.lol Rimini, not signing a world class player doesn't mean the sale hasn't gone through
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - grande-milan-dk - 12-13-2016
(12-13-2016, 01:36 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: posted this in the management thread by mistake...
It seems the 100m deposit has been paid, an official statement has been made by SES (Sino Europe, not El Shaarawy
lol Rimini, not signing a world class player doesn't mean the sale hasn't gone through
Anyone inhere from China that can add some news about the investors ?. It seems that no one in public no anything about this investors that will buy Milan. The issue that the delay is because of money can not be transferred, how could Inter then be bought that quick without any issues. So guess not all investors are found yet - or need to find more money. But could be nice, if someone from China could make a update
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - reza - 12-13-2016
I think the only explanation is that in a Suning deal it is private money but for us state and local governments (as in shareholders like banks partially managed by the government) are involved. If this is not the reason for delays then the likelihood that the whole takeover is a scam is real.
RE: Venting, sell the club, etc. thread - Ryo - 12-14-2016
Not from China, but have been dealing with their banks and companies for some time now....
Reza is correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suning_Commerce_Group
Sunning is one of China's largest non-government related companies with subsidiaries and bank accounts that operate in Hong Kong and Japan. Hong Kong as a whole is a financial hub that is independent from China and their policies. Hong Kong operates in line with any other major financial hub around the world (New York, London, Tokyo, etc.). The City itself is economically and financially free of Chinese red tape, and money can move into and out of their banks without extra Chinese government restrictions. That is why Merda's owners were able to move the money around without much restrictions, because they have a means to do so.
Our case is entirely different. Even though the names of the companies in the consortium may not sound government related, the fact that it consists of several banks within the China region already says a lot. Because we are dealing with local Chinese banks, they are under heavy restrictions to monetary "policies" (I say this term loosely, since they are essentially Government commands) and a lot of red tape. I highly doubt any of the companies in our investor's consortium have access to a Hong Kong company, much less a Hong Kong bank account (you can only open one if you have residence or are a company registered IN Hong Kong). Ergo, moving money for companies in China will be heavily restricted by whatever the Government says you can or cannot do.
Now I've already mentioned in previous posts as to why the Chinese Government would put up such resistance to taking money out from China at all, so I won't repeat myself. Essentially what you have to understand here is that we are not dealing with an investor consortium that has access to the free market and hence is restricted by Chinese Government red tape when it comes to transfer of money. I suspect the consortium may not have influential ties with the Chinese Government, and hence even though it may be non-government related companies, it is severely restricted by Chinese government policies when it comes to operations. Normaly government related companies and those with ties to the government may seek 'short-cut' methods in dealing with the Chinese government. It may seem like a good thing, but racking up favors with the Chinese government means you will be asked to pay up to those favors down the line, so on that point I would consider us fortunate.
Also, do note that these restrictions normally occur only in the initial stage of things. If the consortium do manage to take over Milan (which is essentially a company created and registered in Italy), then movement of money and resources between our investors to a company with access to the greater world markets becomes a lot easier due to this access. When that time comes, because Chinese companies prefer access to world markets and also because everyone is afraid the Chinese Government will appropriate everything in China at the drop of a hat, you can expect a lot of "Capital" to be injected into Milan. Sunning, with it's already-present global access do not have the need to do so, because they can transfer funds to and fro at any time anyways.
Said it before, and I'll say it again. I believe Berlu when he says that the money is already there. The issue is and always will be the Chinese Bureaucracy and their government's interventions in the market and money transfers. Once we get past that, and considering how much of an effort they are making to buy us out, I believe the team they set up will be many times more involved in Milan than Sunning are with Merda at the moment.
And I must also remind everyone here panicking about the sales, don't. They've put down 200 Million Euros, non-refundable, on the line here. Unless there was some catastrophe that wiped out their company or something, the Chinese won't just throw away that much money to have nothing to show for it. Their mentality isn't like Bee and the Thais. If they are willing to put down that much money, they expect to receive something in return for sure.