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RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Gabriel426 - 01-04-2012
Since both had done nothing Int'l stage, lets talk about their domestic status.
Slowdorf was a starter but was never the focus or the man leading the team and thats what it meant by the main man. When he was in Ajax, Davids, Frank and Litimanen were leading charge. While in Real, Redondo, and Raul, with Milan, he got Sheva, Pirlo then Kaka and now Ibra. Put it this way, when you think about the Ajax of 94-95 or the Real in 97-99 or Milan between 02-now, I doubt anyone would say Slowdorf is the man for these teams but they would say Lampard is the man for Chelsea between 01-now. On top of that, Ajax, Real, Milan ain't little teams that surprised people when they won. Same can be said about Chelsea too, but the Finals in 08 really could gone both ways since it was decided during a penalty shootout and I think in 09, if it weren't for that refs, they should have beaten Barca and might just win the CL.
I really don't understand how some of you are downplaying Lampard and esp, the EPL. The EPL might not be the best league like they market but they are a pretty good league. IMO, actually a better league than Serie A. They do have great players playing in that league and it is no longer the long ball and chase like they were 20 yrs ago.
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Beppe - 01-04-2012
EPL is a great league and Lampard is/was a great player but Seedorf in his best years was much better. and he was a KEY player in our CL winning seasons!
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Nalx - 01-04-2012
(01-04-2012, 05:32 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Since both had done nothing Int'l stage, lets talk about their domestic status.
Slowdorf was a starter but was never the focus or the man leading the team and thats what it meant by the main man. When he was in Ajax, Davids, Frank and Litimanen were leading charge. While in Real, Redondo, and Raul, with Milan, he got Sheva, Pirlo then Kaka and now Ibra. Put it this way, when you think about the Ajax of 94-95 or the Real in 97-99 or Milan between 02-now, I doubt anyone would say Slowdorf is the man for these teams but they would say Lampard is the man for Chelsea between 01-now. On top of that, Ajax, Real, Milan ain't little teams that surprised people when they won. Same can be said about Chelsea too, but the Finals in 08 really could gone both ways since it was decided during a penalty shootout and I think in 09, if it weren't for that refs, they should have beaten Barca and might just win the CL.
I really don't understand how some of you are downplaying Lampard and esp, the EPL. The EPL might not be the best league like they market but they are a pretty good league. IMO, actually a better league than Serie A. They do have great players playing in that league and it is no longer the long ball and chase like they were 20 yrs ago.
If you really want to look at the domestic results how about the statistics Jay Crisp mentioned mate. It's a simple math, and more importantly, numbers don't lie. Lampard: 3 EPL + 3 FA Cups. Slowdorf has 5 league medals + 3 domestic cups.
And I strongly disagree with your downplaying his UCL achievement just because he played for "ain't little teams" like Ajax+Madrid+Milan. Zidane played for Juve+Madrid and only won 1. Viera played for Arsenal+Juve+Inter, Ibra played for Juve+Inter+Barca+Milan, and they won zip. It's one thing playing in those big clubs and a totally different thing winning the biggest prize in European football with them.
And I don't buy your point about the other players are the ones running the team. It's like a joke when head arguing with hand as to who is the most important part of the body, until ass decides it's time to go on strike. Each and every player in the starting line-up is of the same importance. And big clubs with big ambitions always strive to get the best player for each position, otherwise the team as a unit will have a blatant weakness and fail. Your belittling Slowdorf's importance for those clubs is like saying, well, we have a dream team rhythm section to back us up in John Bonham and John Paul Jones, and Jimmy Page has always been the most creative song-writer anyway, so let's kick that Robert-something out and hire Justin Bieber instead
That's all I want to say now. Somebody please come up with a mercato rumor before mzk starts another debate
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Jay Crisp - 01-04-2012
Lampard was good but fact is Seedorf was better.No1 ever actually says damn he never did anything a big game in the league or in the CL or in the FA cup (they love that shizzle) or For England...zip nada zilch..Great guy to score a penalty though...man Imagine if Seedorf took all those penaltys that , Sheva , Kaka , Pirlo , Ibra , Pato...blah blah blah ...he'd have more goals.
But goals are not the point , football player wise being valuable tacticaly sound quality giving you holy shit moments trophy cabinet CLARENCE SEEDORF >>>>Frank Lampard...and I bet Lampard would say the same.
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Warro Bantan - 01-04-2012
Pato to PSG rumors are back on the front burner in the Italian press....talk of an "indecent proposal" in the Gazzetta I believe.
My view: He isnt going anywhere. If, and its a big "IF" he does in fact go, the money from his sale could land us DeRossi AND Tevez.....if (another HUGE IF) B&G decide to spend that money on transfers/wages.
Having said that, Seedorf is approximately 4.632 times better than Lampard.
Any other rumors of note?
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Gabriel426 - 01-04-2012
I guess Robert Horry is a much better player than Karl Malone and Charles Barkely due to his 7 NBA championships and playing a huge part in those 7 championships and not just a journey man. Every player is important to any championship team, maybe they won't show it in the final game but must have shown something during the long season. However, there are those who are more important than others, Olajuwon, Duncan and Shaq did not hit those 3s like Horry down the stretch but you can't say Horry was as important as them for their championship teams. Slowdorf was important in his success, but his importance ain't the same as Davids, Frank, Redondo, Raul, Sheva, Kaka, Pirlo for their respective teams. While Lampard was the key man for West Ham and Chelsea. Thats the differences between, while Lampard has always been the Batman role, Slowdorf been the Robin role.
I know individual awards are often a joke but the winner usually do deserves it. Lampard won a few while Slowdorf had not.
Back to rumors, Just let Pato go.
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Vulli - 01-04-2012
According to La Gazzetta dello Sport
Kia Joorabchian is on his way to Brazil, where he will meet with Galliani to talk about the Tevez deal.
Joorabchian: "I will only talk with Milan and not any other clubs."
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Best-Pundit - 01-04-2012
(01-03-2012, 01:17 PM)Jay Crisp Wrote: Also in his best years in EPL 03-08 his goals tally wasIf you think Seedorf has been the better playre, fine. Every one has his criteria of greta players. But to say that he mostly scored when teams were 3, 4 down or because of penalties is a ridiculous statement.
02/03 6 goals 8 in all competition 48 games
03/04 10 goals 15 in all competition 56 games
04/05 13 goals. 19 in all competition 58 games
05/06. 16 goals 20 in all competition 51 games
06/07. 11 games 21 in all competition 63 games
07/08. 10 goals 20 in all competition. 40 games
Only 21.52% of his goals came from penalties. 31 penalties out of 151 goals. Not bad at all. All great goals scorers were great penalty takes as well, that is why they took the spot kick in first place. That doesn't degrade his phenomenal record, but infect adds to it. He scored in the UCL final, in the semi final against Liverpool, away at Old Trafford in Carling Cup semi final, a total of 3 each against Barcelona & Bayen Munich, 6 against Liverpool & of course the goal that away at the invincible Arsenal of 2003-04 in the UCL QF.
At club level football: Edgar Davids + Clarence Seedorf = Frank Lampard, ask Jose Mourinho.
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - xudong - 01-04-2012
(01-04-2012, 10:30 AM)Nalx Wrote: If you really want to look at the domestic results how about the statistics Jay Crisp mentioned mate. It's a simple math, and more importantly, numbers don't lie. Lampard: 3 EPL + 3 FA Cups. Slowdorf has 5 league medals + 3 domestic cups.
And I strongly disagree with your downplaying his UCL achievement just because he played for "ain't little teams" like Ajax+Madrid+Milan. Zidane played for Juve+Madrid and only won 1. Viera played for Arsenal+Juve+Inter, Ibra played for Juve+Inter+Barca+Milan, and they won zip. It's one thing playing in those big clubs and a totally different thing winning the biggest prize in European football with them.
And I don't buy your point about the other players are the ones running the team. It's like a joke when head arguing with hand as to who is the most important part of the body, until ass decides it's time to go on strike. Each and every player in the starting line-up is of the same importance. And big clubs with big ambitions always strive to get the best player for each position, otherwise the team as a unit will have a blatant weakness and fail. Your belittling Slowdorf's importance for those clubs is like saying, well, we have a dream team rhythm section to back us up in John Bonham and John Paul Jones, and Jimmy Page has always been the most creative song-writer anyway, so let's kick that Robert-something out and hire Justin Bieber instead
That's all I want to say now. Somebody please come up with a mercato rumor before mzk starts another debate
Once again, great analysis, and I am with you 100%.
And I wish I had some meaningful mercato rumor to share, but I will not throw myself into this debate either.
RE: Winter Mercato 11'/12' - Stitch - 01-04-2012
(01-04-2012, 03:16 PM)Gabriel426 Wrote: I guess Robert Horry is a much better player than Karl Malone and Charles Barkely due to his 7 NBA championships and playing a huge part in those 7 championships and not just a journey man. Every player is important to any championship team, maybe they won't show it in the final game but must have shown something during the long season. However, there are those who are more important than others, Olajuwon, Duncan and Shaq did not hit those 3s like Horry down the stretch but you can't say Horry was as important as them for their championship teams. Slowdorf was important in his success, but his importance ain't the same as Davids, Frank, Redondo, Raul, Sheva, Kaka, Pirlo for their respective teams. While Lampard was the key man for West Ham and Chelsea. Thats the differences between, while Lampard has always been the Batman role, Slowdorf been the Robin role.
I know individual awards are often a joke but the winner usually do deserves it. Lampard won a few while Slowdorf had not.
Back to rumors, Just let Pato go.
Love the NBA allegory
Big Shot Rob is one of my favourite players of all time, so yes, he is better 