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+--- Thread: Summer Mercato (/showthread.php?tid=582)
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RE: Summer Mercato - Jay Crisp - 02-15-2014
What was Ibra for 2 years €9Millon X2 wages with taxes and €24M transfer fee wass total €60 million ,thats a lot of €'s Ibra was not cheap & not the great deal some proclaim it to be.It crippled us & we couldnt sustain it.
RE: Summer Mercato - Alan - 02-15-2014
(02-14-2014, 08:56 PM)ElMago99 Wrote: Without getting too political... it's known that if you want to kill something, don't make it illegal, instead Tax it. Making Drugs illegal only creates underground black markets. If you tax it.. you'll kill it.
In economics this is known.
Therefore when you tax something you kill it. You tax business, you kill it. You tax football players wages, and you'll kill the football in that country too. It's really that simple.
We had to pay Ibra a lot more because of taxes... and the club got hurt.
on this note, I should say while I agree taxes don't help italian footballers, I am believer in equality in society first and a football fan second. no way should multi-millionaires be given tax breaks just to help a football team. these people make more in a couple of days than any of us here will make in a year. they could buy our homes outright with a months wages.
It's not a struggle for them to get by.
RE: Summer Mercato - ACMILAN1983 - 02-15-2014
(02-14-2014, 02:17 PM)maharaja Wrote: Thanks for this post.
I would like to have more information about our club(as I guess that is what we all want). I know that it is a private, and owned by one family, but even there some accountability should exist. In football, they earn significant amount from their 'customers' - fans.
The sad thing is that in modern football a club can't compete at the top level without huge investment from the boss. Just look at the English clubs. Even lower-ranked teams invest more money. Not to mention how much money the Glazer family invested, and how much money they plan to spend this summer (Today I heard around 100m GBP). If you are a wealthy businessman you don't own a football club to make a profit, basically it is impossible.
Another problem is Italy's tax system. They should use their political power to decrease taxes for wages (This is probably naive of me to think that it is possible in Italian politics).
Regarding Galliani, well he does have a lot of power (I think that he is formally a CEO), but when I look for someone to blame, I blame the top of the hierarchy first. If he is to go, I would also like the whole Berlusconni family to go.
That's cool, it's a discussion close to all of our hearts I'm sure.
Accountability should exist for a private company, but ultimately there's only going to be so much transparency. For starters, they need to make sure they provide enough information to meet legal requirements and they are accountable to shareholders, hence we often hear big news when shareholder meetings come around (next one is in April if I'm right). Principally, because the Berlusconis own the company, it comes down to it being their call as to whose made responsible for failures. I'm sure many, like you, want the Berlusconis gone, but as long as they own the club and wish to keep it, we're stuck with them.
Getting back to the responsibility ownership thing, we saw Barbara all but publicly call out and hold Galliani responsible back in October or November, leading to Galliani all but ready to quit, but because Silvio's ultimately the boss he overruled everything that was going on and started this whole joint CEO mess.
Honestly, the only reason I think Galliani's still around is because Silvio's got a long history with him and Galliani must surely know things Silvio doesn't want made public. Beyond that, Galliani's influence since that debacle has clearly been reduced, with Braida (his right hand man) losing his job, no money being given for transfers, with the possibility of transfers not going through due to Barbara intervening (Biabiany) and finally, the big one, Allegri getting the sack and Seedorf (Silvio's pick) getting the job.
It's ironic you mention English clubs and the investment they're owners make, as I was listening to a podcast just yesterday questioning how beneficial they are. While it's true that even the smaller English sides spend huge sums compared to us, the model the English are based on isn't too different to what we were doing when Berlu was spending. Like I said before, this can't last forever and unless they grow as a business they will sooner or later collapse in the way we have. Currently, a number of clubs are really feeling the financial problems, while others (some major clubs) have massive debt. You mention the Glazers and United, but they're actually a bad example of a club with owners spending huge sums. The Glazers spent money from United on the club (well, actually taking huge loans under the club's name), but as a result have left the club in major debt. Actually, I'd argue the model to follow is Germany, where some of the most successful clubs are very much self sufficient. Bayern may not be all that popular, but they're a very well run club.
About the tax system, I believe Italy was previously at a disadvantage but that's no longer really the case, with England and Spain both raising taxes recently. I also think France (not Monaco) might be the worst off of all. I'd be interested if anyone has the specific figures.
RE: Summer Mercato - Stitch - 02-15-2014
(02-15-2014, 09:02 AM)Jay Crisp Wrote: What was Ibra for 2 years €9Millon X2 wages with taxes and €24M transfer fee wass total €60 million ,thats a lot of €'s Ibra was not cheap & not the great deal some proclaim it to be.It crippled us & we couldnt sustain it.
dont forget he is/was easily top 3 players in the world. he certainly was worth it.
RE: Summer Mercato - Jay Crisp - 02-15-2014
(02-15-2014, 03:09 PM)Stitch Wrote:Yes but im just saying it wasnt a financial masterclass ,he cost a lot.Ibra just wasnt financially viable for us ,doesnt mean I wasnt upset when he was sold.He is worth it for a side than can afford it ,we couldnt unfortunately.Hes getting better with age.(02-15-2014, 09:02 AM)Jay Crisp Wrote: What was Ibra for 2 years €9Millon X2 wages with taxes and €24M transfer fee wass total €60 million ,thats a lot of €'s Ibra was not cheap & not the great deal some proclaim it to be.It crippled us & we couldnt sustain it.
dont forget he is/was easily top 3 players in the world. he certainly was worth it.
RE: Summer Mercato - reza - 02-15-2014
The only credit to Galliani was getting him to come to us, at that time Barca didn't really want him though
RE: Summer Mercato - ElMago99 - 02-15-2014
(02-15-2014, 10:41 AM)Alan Wrote: on this note, I should say while I agree taxes don't help italian footballers, I am believer in equality in society first and a football fan second. no way should multi-millionaires be given tax breaks just to help a football team. these people make more in a couple of days than any of us here will make in a year. they could buy our homes outright with a months wages.
It's not a struggle for them to get by.
Agreed. The whole ideas of taxes in general is a weird and complex one... They're intended to help society..building roads, bridges, fielding a military.. and it's grown to be so much more.. Now Most in the Western World are taxed 50-60% of their income .. and they're taxed on income, property, clothes, food, interest, capital gains, and it goes on and on and on..... As I've said..if you want to kill something, tax it.
If we will continue on with taxes as is, then yes, obviously football owners, players, managers are rich beyond belief, and don't need tax brakes. 100% agreed.
The problem as a fan is that in Italy the taxes are way higher than everywhere else, thus killing Italian football. It's a shame it works that way, but it does. And as you say, it's only sports so in the end it's not the end of the world, but we should recognize the main reason for why Italian football is dying..among others.
RE: Summer Mercato - reza - 02-15-2014
(02-15-2014, 07:35 PM)ElMago99 Wrote: The problem as a fan is that in Italy the taxes are way higher than everywhere else, thus killing Italian football.
That is not true.
This numbers are 100% correct, I am copying them from a print source. Currently (and in most cases since forever):
Spain 52%
France 45% (possibly 75%)
England 45%
Italy 46%
Germany 47%
Portugal 46%
Holland 52%
RE: Summer Mercato - reza - 02-15-2014
^ These* numbers
I wanted to add that the only ones changed recently are Spain and England, yes those were lower before but still....
RE: Summer Mercato - ElMago99 - 02-16-2014
I thought Italy was 50%.. and Spain and England were lower. Thus Galliani always complaining "Italy's is HIGHER than all other countries"...
I guess caught in another lie.