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RE: Serie A - ACMILAN1983 - 07-29-2014
(07-28-2014, 12:50 PM)Ceceves Wrote: Well, what can you expect from a criminal running a disgusting club supported by fascists?
As for Italy's prospects, I agree it looks really bad. The whole football system needs a restructuring at least the size of the one Germany undertook since 2000. And in Italy it's not just the development of players, but the whole financial structure surrounding the clubs (including the stadium situation). It could be done, but considering the Italian political system, I'm not holding my breath (well, maybe, but only to escape the stench of corruption...)
I have a feeling the only way Italian clubs will be competitive again, is by foreign investment a la PSG and Monaco (who also play in a financially unappealing league). But to the extent this has happened, as in Roma and Inter, it's not remotely enough to push these clubs in to European elite.
Btw. I should note I'm not saying foreign ownership is the way I want to go. It's just the easiest way out, and doesn't make up for the failings of the football system in the country.
lol, the "fascists" don't particularly like that criminal though
I agree on your point on foreign ownership, but I'm not sure it's in the best interest of the clubs for this to happen. At the moment it's benefitted Roma, but unless other clubs show any ambition, and I include Juve who are showing little desire to try and make a push in Europe, they will struggle because in order for Roma to be successful, the whole league needs a certain level of competitiveness.
The issue with foreign ownership is that while the benefit comes from bringing in money to the clubs owned by these people, other clubs inevitably suffer and you end up with at best a couple of clubs dominating the league with ease. This isn't the foreigners fault (Spain suffers the same without foreign owners, Germany with Bayern is another example), but what FIGC needs is to improve Serie A's competitiveness abroad without compromising the domestic level of competition. How this is achieved is up to FIGC (there are ways to do this)and however they do it, it is a necessity.
Ultimately, this "lack of competitiveness" is an epidemic that European football faces, as every league is dominated by pretty much a couple of teams in each league, whereas the rest simply have little to no say. There is a risk of collapse as teams just can't cope financially with the biggest teams. A solution for years has been to have a European Super League where the biggest and richest play, but this will lead to an inevitable collapse of the local leagues which will suffer the loss of the best teams and players. The problem also lies in inflation in Europe, which relates directly to Italian football's financial situation. As the richest clubs spend stupid money in football, while there is a money being brought into the game, there is a massive risk that financial bubble will burst. As there's no control over inflation in the industry, if that bubbles bursts, the ramifications are rather scary.
This is moving onto other areas outside of Italian football, but my point is that FIGC need to consider how they can build a sound and sustainable product without taking the levels of risk that other leagues have taken to reach the highest levels. That's why the German model is considered an example to follow. It's not just the restructuring to bring through top players and coaches, but it's the fact that team ownership isn't reliant on sugar daddies and the number of stakeholders in clubs means that they aren't risking collapse should a single stakeholder stop financing the club. This model, Bayern aside, has generally brought a competitive level in the Bundesliga that means there is a spread in the league where you feel no team is overly dominant. While Dortmund are usually going to be at the top, there's always that feeling teams can face them and give them a game. This is evident in the fact that they lost around 1/5 of their games this past season.
The other aspect of the German model that's really impressive is that on the pitch they've found an identity of their own, but have also looked at the successes of the Spanish model and have incorpared elements of that to evolve their own game.
(07-28-2014, 10:25 PM)Lilly Wrote: I think foreign owners who truly invest in the club could be good for the national team as well. When the Sheikh bought Manchester City back then, I thought he was another rich dude who wants a football club as a toy, but he's actually making some smart investments. One project is apparently setting up a world class youth academy and youth project. If they pull that off, that can only be good for the nation as a whole.
I just don't think truly shrewd businessmen would buy clubs in Serie A as investments at the moment. Infrastructure and regulations in leagues such as EPL makes it much easier to build a club into a moneymaking global brand than in Serie A. I think all we're going to get is second rate investors who ultimately don't have what it takes to truly make a difference.
I mean, people talk about how football is a reflection of the nation as a whole, but Spain is doing very poorly economically and is still dealing with quite a bit of social discontent (although they are apparently on the way up), and their football is still doing well.
Barbara seems to be the only sane person in our management. I have doubts about her abilities, but at least she comes across as a normal person.
Excellent point on City there. Forget their footballing investments, which have been a little all over the place (I'll get back to that actually), your point on building a youth academy and actually their proposed idea to improve Manchester City as a product and use the city as a "sporting hub" could help them become a much better and sustained product.
You know what's sad is that Barbara actually wants something like that for Milan. Casa Milan being an open sporting hub for AC Milan and being a dominating factor in the city of Milan (you see marketing for it everywhere) is a great idea, especially as she's shown interest in taking that brand globally in the future. What she's managed to do really smartly is making fans feel part of the club by making the same complex that fans visit, the central offices for those working for the club. For PR and developing an identity, this is an excellent approach. She's also said that she wants youth focus to be our project and has numerous times mentioned others (mostly Germany) as examples for Italian football to use.
Our problem is two old men at the top of the club aren't helping in this project at all and don't seem to have a long term vision for the club, simply reacting to the the difficulties around them with irrational and down right crazy ideas.
You're also right on foreign investors not coming to Milan. Roma's an exception, because it seems as though the American (James Palotta) who invested in them did it for personal reasons as much as for business. Foreign investors who look at Serie A are looking at a product in quick decline, with a host of social problems and a ton of red tape stopping them from developing projects (just look at the stadium issues). Right now, the only positive that Serie A has going for it is it's successful history. Even then, when you consider that history has foundations in what people lambasted as dull, boring and defensive football in the past, it's a hard product to sell. In the meantime, you have the EPL, known for it's fast and entertaining brand, Spain for the technical quality and in modern times, Germany, who have reinvented their football as a more technical and fast brand of football. Italian football needs to try and do what Germany did, but at this point it's not doing anything of the sort, so why would any investors come to Italy?
(07-29-2014, 04:33 AM)Mystik Wrote: In case anyone was wondering, of course Galliani supports Tavecchio!
http://football-italia.net/52759/galliani-milan-support-tavecchio
Quote:Adriano Galliani confirmed Milan continue to support Carlo Tavecchio for the FIGC Presidency despite a racism row.
“We say that any old Opti Pobà can come here, before he was eating bananas, now he’s playing in the Lazio first XI,” said 71-year-old Tavecchio on Friday.
Fiorentina, Cesena and Sassuolo have withdrawn their support, but Galliani assured Milan are standing with him.
“It was certainly an unfortunate phrase, but that’s where it ends,” the CEO told Sky Sport Italia.
“Milan’s position does not change. Tavecchio is not a racist, he just made an unfortunate comment.”
The other candidate is former Milan star Demetrio Albertini.
“I know Albertini, he is a friend and our personal rapport is very good.”
It disgusts me that he's said "Milan's position does not change". We know Barbara (the joint CEO) doesn't support Tavecchio after their public spat and I'd like to know how many in the club do support him (how about they ask our black members of staff on their thoughts?). Galliani supports Tavecchio and it's a shame that he's representing the club.
I have no support for him and I refuse to acknowledge his "achievements" with the club. As far as I'm concerned, the successes the club has had is due to the work of other individuals who brought the club to the top. Galliani has shown his inability and actually incompetence to manage the club in the past decade when he didn't have fortunes to spend and around the end of the 90's, when he completely failed to oversee a regeneration of the club with a new project.
RE: Serie A - ACMILAN1983 - 07-29-2014
Just
http://www.football-italia.net/53174/tavecchio-sexist-gaffe-too
Of course, his defenders, including our bald idiot, will say his "intentions were right, just a poor choice of words".
RE: Serie A - ACMILAN1983 - 07-29-2014
To go for the hatrrick on posts, I thought I should share a little about the actual policies of Tavecchio and Albertini. Albertini was recently interviewed by GDS and outlined 5 key areas of development:
http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2014/07/albertinis-five-point-plan-for-figc-president-campaign/
Unsurprisingly, most of his ideas are focused on developing young talents and investing time and resources in youth development. What's funny is arguably his most controversial policy might be to enforce 10 homegrown players in squads. While Juve, a team hardly made up of homegrown players, are totally on board with him, we (well Galliani and probably Berlusconi, as I understand Forza Italia are supporting Tavecchio), who are supposedly focusing on youth development completely, are against him. I also completely advocate his 18 team Serie A proposal, something I think is invaluable to Italian football being competitive in Europe.
As for Tavecchio, I'm actually not sure what his policies are if I'm honest. I vaguely remember a lot sounding like very much the status quo and he's had a major rant about not compromising (http://www.football-italia.net/52607/tavecchio-too-old-compromise) and it sounds like he wants some kind of financial balance for teams to help avoid teams going into administration, but what he's said doesn't actually make any sense, as because I said he just sort of rants. Also, I read somewhere he wants every club to have a women's team, but not sure if this is true nor does it make sense as teams that are already struggling can't be forced to have more overheads with women's sides. I also have no idea why Galliani supports this, seeing as he's moaned in the past about having to share profits with other clubs (i.e. TV rights money).
I know I've been very much focused on the candidates (rather Tavecchio) in recent posts about his comments rather than policies, which is something that I've been trying to follow during this process, but haven't posted about. Obviously, I do agree with Albertini's general ideas more than Tavecchio's, mostly as Tavecchio's not shown any transparency on his ideas (If anyone has more details on either candidates policies, I'd welcome them).
RE: Serie A - ACMILAN1983 - 07-30-2014
Just a couple of quick updates on this situation. There's a petition going around to try and force Tavecchio to step down. It was looking to get over 4000 signatures, it stands closer to 21,000 right now.
https://www.change.org/petitions/tavecchio-non-pu%C3%B2-rappresentare-il-calcio-italiano
The club's public stance with Tavecchio is really damaging our image publicly too. Many parts of the media have condemned our stance and our hypocritical attitude against racism. Here's an article that focuses on precisely this point:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2144453-ac-milan-lose-everything-by-supporting-fa-candidate-carlo-tavecchio?
Finally, I just thought it worth asking why this topic isn't generating more interest/posts on the forum (I have 4 posts in a row now)? I value those who have shared opinions on the matter, but seeing how much activity there is in the Mercato thread and in the summer friendlies thread, it seems completely bizarre to me that this isn't being discussed. After all, this is something that affects the future of Italian football and principally is more important than our mercato and friendlies.
To put it simply, whatever the outcome of this election could dictate how competitive Italian football is, both internationally and at club level. Underneath the broad footballing influence, this whole situation brings about many politcal, social and cultural debates that cover many issues with the problems in Italian football.
RE: Serie A - nefremo - 07-30-2014
These elections always seem like politics to me more then anything else. There is no voting as they say. It's all pre-organized and decided with meetings and promises. "I'll scratch your back - you scratch mine" type of deals.
The fact that Tavecchio has now made a fool of himself is altering the process a little bit and all of a sudden this has given Albertini a window. I wish Albertini wins because I think Italian football needs big reforms. A lot of the reforms can not be done by either of the candidates though and it needs to stem from the government itself. Therefore I don't know how much impact either of these two can actually have if they are not in turn supported by the lawmakers. The stadiums issue is the big one here.
I think most teams are hoping that with the little time that's left until the "election", these comments by Tavecchio slowly disappear and are forgotten. It's a shame really as the man does not deserve to be the leader of anything if his mind is stuck in the stone ages. How is he supposed to take Italian Football back on the right track if he has ALREADY caused controversy?!?! There has been way too many of these controversies in Italy throughout the years.....Italian Football needs someone that gets rid of them, not someone who starts them before even entering office.
RE: Serie A - Mystik - 07-30-2014
By default I could never support someone who made such a racist comment so automatically Tavecchio is a no-no for me. I doubt there is any English source with a good compilation of both candidates' policies but I would definitely like to see it if it exists. I feel like if anyone would know it's Hasan but he's been MIA for a while. The bottom line is that the Italian football structure needs major reform if Italian clubs and the national team are going to become competitive again.
RE: Serie A - ACMILAN1983 - 07-30-2014
Thanks for responding guys, I do appreciate getting some discussion going around this, as it directly impacts us as much as the mercato or our on pitch performances. I will look to respond in more detail later (I'll also do a search for more details of the policies, most of what I've heard are snippets here and there and the article GDS posted about Albertini).
goal.com has published an article and obviously it comments on "our" support for Tavecchio:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2014/07/30/4993239/handling-of-tavecchio-racism-scandal-more-crucial-for-italy-than-?ICID=OP
I don't do it often, but credit to Kris Voakes for clarifying Galliani is supporting Tavecchio, while Barbara is quite obviously not in agreement.
RE: Serie A - ACM2023 - 07-30-2014
(07-30-2014, 09:34 AM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: Just a couple of quick updates on this situation. There's a petition going around to try and force Tavecchio to step down. It was looking to get over 4000 signatures, it stands closer to 21,000 right now.
https://www.change.org/petitions/tavecchio-non-pu%C3%B2-rappresentare-il-calcio-italiano
The club's public stance with Tavecchio is really damaging our image publicly too. Many parts of the media have condemned our stance and our hypocritical attitude against racism. Here's an article that focuses on precisely this point:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2144453-ac-milan-lose-everything-by-supporting-fa-candidate-carlo-tavecchio?
Finally, I just thought it worth asking why this topic isn't generating more interest/posts on the forum (I have 4 posts in a row now)? I value those who have shared opinions on the matter, but seeing how much activity there is in the Mercato thread and in the summer friendlies thread, it seems completely bizarre to me that this isn't being discussed. After all, this is something that affects the future of Italian football and principally is more important than our mercato and friendlies.
To put it simply, whatever the outcome of this election could dictate how competitive Italian football is, both internationally and at club level. Underneath the broad footballing influence, this whole situation brings about many politcal, social and cultural debates that cover many issues with the problems in Italian football.
Dev, you intimidated us with your well-thought and well-written posts, so I see no hope of adding any quality to this thread, hence my inertia. So, shame on you.
Nah, I can speak at least for myself that although other members are busy or lazy to respond, your inputs are greatly appreciated. I agree that this thread should deserve more attention, but again I can speak at least for myself that thanks to Galliani who successfully ruined Milan, my appetite for football (in general) is ruined too. I even felt lost during WC, and no one can argue WC would be a much greater thing than Serie A. Cynicism and pessimism-induced apathy are at work here.
RE: Serie A - nefremo - 07-30-2014
Like it was said earlier......It's a big problem when the people in charge of this club can not agree which candidate is the best for our club. How are they supposed to agree on anything else? Galliani needs to go.....
RE: Serie A - ACM2023 - 07-30-2014
(07-30-2014, 05:36 PM)nefremo Wrote: Like it was said earlier......It's a big problem when the people in charge of this club can not agree which candidate is the best for our club. How are they supposed to agree on anything else? Galliani needs to go.....
A year ago, I actually thought Silvio Berlusconi was behind the whole thing just to push Galliani out of Milan, but then he alleged convinced Gallaini to stay after he threatened to quit. Then I totally felt lost what the hell was going on in Milan, other than it seemingly suggests that both B and G are senile and perhaps evil, wanting to push Milan down the pooper.